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MESSAGE
DATE 2024-02-18
FROM Mithun Bhattacharya
SUBJECT Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] HTTPd Devs Considered Harmful to
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References:




In-Reply-To:
From: Mithun Bhattacharya
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 15:40:51 -0600
Message-ID:
To: mod_perl list
Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] HTTPd Devs Considered Harmful to
Apache2::Request users
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So it will be moved to retired I assume or are they going to break their
own rules and purge it altogether?

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 3:33=E2=80=AFPM Joe Schaefer wro=
te:

> 2.18 will never be released. They are shutting down the project.
>
> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>
> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>
>
> 954.253.3732
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 4:32=E2=80=AFPM Mithun Bhattacharya .com>
> wrote:
>
>> Could you clarify this - 2.17 has a critical bug and 2.18 is about to
>> come out which doesn't have a good enough patch so how would trunk be an=
y
>> better?
>>
>> Also how is this passing make test or were the test cases modified to
>> make the bug pass ?
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:12=E2=80=AFPM Joe Schaefer =
wrote:
>>
>>> Trunk is the safe bet.
>>>
>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>>
>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>>
>>>
>>> 954.253.3732
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:11=E2=80=AFPM Mithun Bhattacharya il.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So is there a cleaner/saner version of libapreq2 or is the 2012 versio=
n
>>>> better ?
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58=E2=80=AFPM Joe Schaefer m> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For the past 25 years, I have been the lead developer of the libapreq=
2
>>>>> subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent Project. The origina=
l idea
>>>>> of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and Cookie parsing library=
came
>>>>> out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein and Doug MacEachern in t=
he
>>>>> late 90s.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was my vision back then to transform the library into a generic,
>>>>> non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings from =
other
>>>>> programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to be ho=
mes
>>>>> under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.
>>>>>
>>>>> While this vision was wildly successful, with language bindings
>>>>> available for several languages like Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since ab=
out
>>>>> 2010 its proven tragic for the existing user community consisting of =
all of
>>>>> them, not just Perl.
>>>>>
>>>>> What happened? Philip Gollucci, a Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at th=
e
>>>>> time, started agitating that we promote the project to be released fr=
om
>>>>> inside the HTTPd server itself. What Philip didn=E2=80=99t know very =
well back then
>>>>> was how utterly vapid and territorial that team had become, which wou=
ld
>>>>> have meant having to collaborate with them directly on user-facing
>>>>> decisions about the code base.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2012, Philip got what he wanted and I stopped resisting, so he
>>>>> forked the existing project and copied the C library components into =
HTTPd
>>>>> core.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You can guess the
>>>>> reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2020 or so, Google=E2=80=99s Security Team took advantage of an al=
pha
>>>>> release of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It foun=
d a
>>>>> few hotspots that needed repair.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or anyone else
>>>>> involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd team=
went
>>>>> about the business of =E2=80=9Cbug fixing=E2=80=9D the vulnerabilitie=
s Google found. You
>>>>> can see a record of his trial and error work in every release since t=
hen.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the rooki=
e
>>>>> developer purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase, breakin=
g a
>>>>> fifteen year old regression test.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are wondering how something with a broken regression test wind=
s
>>>>> up on CPAN, you=E2=80=99ll have to look into how RELENG is done in th=
e server
>>>>> project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway,
>>>>> and called it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every pri=
or
>>>>> release was susceptible to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do I care now? Because I=E2=80=99m the sucker users reach out to =
for
>>>>> answers as a known subject matter expert.
>>>>>
>>>>> This sucks, but I=E2=80=99m sorry to tell you that my days wearing th=
e
>>>>> Superman cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>>>>
>>>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 954.253.3732
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>

--00000000000071ff7b0611aed590
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So it will be moved to retired I assume or are they =
going to break their own rules and purge it altogether?

=3D"gmail_quote">
On Sun, Feb 18, 2024=
, 3:33=E2=80=AFPM Joe Schaefer <jo=
e-at-sunstarsys.com> wrote:
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">v dir=3D"auto">2.18 will never be released. They are shutting down the proj=
ect.



ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 4:32=E2=80=AFPM Mithun Bh=
attacharya <"noreferrer">mithnb-at-gmail.com> wrote:
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">
Could you clarify this - 2.17 has a critic=
al bug and 2.18 is about to come out which doesn't have a good enough p=
atch so how would trunk be any better?

v dir=3D"auto">Also how is this passing make test or were the test cases mo=
dified to make the bug pass ?
">

"gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:12=E2=80=AFPM Joe Schaefer <=3D"mailto:joe-at-sunstarsys.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">joe-at-sun=
starsys.com> wrote:
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">div>


r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:11=E2=80=AFPM Mithun Bhat=
tacharya <er" target=3D"_blank">mithnb-at-gmail.com> wrote:
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">
So is there a cleaner/saner version of=
libapreq2 or is the 2012 version better ?

te">
On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58=E2=80=
=AFPM Joe Schaefer <rer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">joe-at-sunstarsys.com> wrote:
v>
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
130,130,130);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;back=
ground-color:rgb(246,246,239)">For the past 25 years, I have been the lead =
developer of the libapreq2 subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent=
Project. The original idea of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and =
Cookie parsing library came out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein an=
d Doug MacEachern in the late 90s.

;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color=
:rgb(246,246,239)">It was my vision back then to transform the library into=
a generic, non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings=
from other programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to=
be homes under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.

<=
p style=3D"color:rgb(130,130,130);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,239)">While this vision was w=
ildly successful, with language bindings available for several languages li=
ke Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since about 2010 its proven tragic for the exist=
ing user community consisting of all of them, not just Perl.

"color:rgb(130,130,130);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.=
3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,239)">What happened? Philip Gollucci, a=
Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at the time, started agitating that we promo=
te the project to be released from inside the HTTPd server itself. What Phi=
lip didn=E2=80=99t know very well back then was how utterly vapid and terri=
torial that team had become, which would have meant having to collaborate w=
ith them directly on user-facing decisions about the code base.

=3D"color:rgb(130,130,130);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:=
13.3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,239)">In 2012, Philip got what he wa=
nted and I stopped resisting, so he forked the existing project and copied =
the C library components into HTTPd core.

130);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-c=
olor:rgb(246,246,239)">In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You=
can guess the reasons.

erdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,2=
39)">In 2020 or so, Google=E2=80=99s Security Team took advantage of an alp=
ha release of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It found a=
few hotspots that needed repair.

t-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb=
(246,246,239)">Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or any=
one else involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd t=
eam went about the business of =E2=80=9Cbug fixing=E2=80=9D the vulnerabili=
ties Google found. You can see a record of his trial and error work in ever=
y release since then.

dana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,239=
)">But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the rookie d=
eveloper purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase, breaking a fif=
teen year old regression test.

amily:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb(24=
6,246,239)">If you are wondering how something with a broken regression tes=
t winds up on CPAN, you=E2=80=99ll have to look into how RELENG is done in =
the server project.

na,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,239)"=
>Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway, and c=
alled it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every prior release =
was susceptible to.

na,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,239)"=
>Why do I care now? Because I=E2=80=99m the sucker users reach out to for a=
nswers as a known subject matter expert.

30);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-co=
lor:rgb(246,246,239)">This sucks, but I=E2=80=99m sorry to tell you that my=
days wearing the Superman cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.







--00000000000071ff7b0611aed590--

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_______________________________________________
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Hangout-at-nylxs.com
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So it will be moved to retired I assume or are they going to break their
own rules and purge it altogether?

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 3:33=E2=80=AFPM Joe Schaefer wro=
te:

> 2.18 will never be released. They are shutting down the project.
>
> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>
> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>
>
> 954.253.3732
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 4:32=E2=80=AFPM Mithun Bhattacharya .com>
> wrote:
>
>> Could you clarify this - 2.17 has a critical bug and 2.18 is about to
>> come out which doesn't have a good enough patch so how would trunk be an=
y
>> better?
>>
>> Also how is this passing make test or were the test cases modified to
>> make the bug pass ?
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:12=E2=80=AFPM Joe Schaefer =
wrote:
>>
>>> Trunk is the safe bet.
>>>
>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>>
>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>>
>>>
>>> 954.253.3732
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:11=E2=80=AFPM Mithun Bhattacharya il.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So is there a cleaner/saner version of libapreq2 or is the 2012 versio=
n
>>>> better ?
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58=E2=80=AFPM Joe Schaefer m> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For the past 25 years, I have been the lead developer of the libapreq=
2
>>>>> subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent Project. The origina=
l idea
>>>>> of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and Cookie parsing library=
came
>>>>> out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein and Doug MacEachern in t=
he
>>>>> late 90s.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was my vision back then to transform the library into a generic,
>>>>> non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings from =
other
>>>>> programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to be ho=
mes
>>>>> under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.
>>>>>
>>>>> While this vision was wildly successful, with language bindings
>>>>> available for several languages like Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since ab=
out
>>>>> 2010 its proven tragic for the existing user community consisting of =
all of
>>>>> them, not just Perl.
>>>>>
>>>>> What happened? Philip Gollucci, a Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at th=
e
>>>>> time, started agitating that we promote the project to be released fr=
om
>>>>> inside the HTTPd server itself. What Philip didn=E2=80=99t know very =
well back then
>>>>> was how utterly vapid and territorial that team had become, which wou=
ld
>>>>> have meant having to collaborate with them directly on user-facing
>>>>> decisions about the code base.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2012, Philip got what he wanted and I stopped resisting, so he
>>>>> forked the existing project and copied the C library components into =
HTTPd
>>>>> core.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You can guess the
>>>>> reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2020 or so, Google=E2=80=99s Security Team took advantage of an al=
pha
>>>>> release of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It foun=
d a
>>>>> few hotspots that needed repair.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or anyone else
>>>>> involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd team=
went
>>>>> about the business of =E2=80=9Cbug fixing=E2=80=9D the vulnerabilitie=
s Google found. You
>>>>> can see a record of his trial and error work in every release since t=
hen.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the rooki=
e
>>>>> developer purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase, breakin=
g a
>>>>> fifteen year old regression test.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are wondering how something with a broken regression test wind=
s
>>>>> up on CPAN, you=E2=80=99ll have to look into how RELENG is done in th=
e server
>>>>> project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway,
>>>>> and called it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every pri=
or
>>>>> release was susceptible to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do I care now? Because I=E2=80=99m the sucker users reach out to =
for
>>>>> answers as a known subject matter expert.
>>>>>
>>>>> This sucks, but I=E2=80=99m sorry to tell you that my days wearing th=
e
>>>>> Superman cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>>>>
>>>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 954.253.3732
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>

--00000000000071ff7b0611aed590
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So it will be moved to retired I assume or are they =
going to break their own rules and purge it altogether?

=3D"gmail_quote">
On Sun, Feb 18, 2024=
, 3:33=E2=80=AFPM Joe Schaefer <jo=
e-at-sunstarsys.com> wrote:
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">v dir=3D"auto">2.18 will never be released. They are shutting down the proj=
ect.



ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 4:32=E2=80=AFPM Mithun Bh=
attacharya <"noreferrer">mithnb-at-gmail.com> wrote:
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">
Could you clarify this - 2.17 has a critic=
al bug and 2.18 is about to come out which doesn't have a good enough p=
atch so how would trunk be any better?

v dir=3D"auto">Also how is this passing make test or were the test cases mo=
dified to make the bug pass ?
">

"gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:12=E2=80=AFPM Joe Schaefer <=3D"mailto:joe-at-sunstarsys.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">joe-at-sun=
starsys.com> wrote:
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">div>


r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:11=E2=80=AFPM Mithun Bhat=
tacharya <er" target=3D"_blank">mithnb-at-gmail.com> wrote:
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">
So is there a cleaner/saner version of=
libapreq2 or is the 2012 version better ?

te">
On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58=E2=80=
=AFPM Joe Schaefer <rer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">joe-at-sunstarsys.com> wrote:
v>
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
130,130,130);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;back=
ground-color:rgb(246,246,239)">For the past 25 years, I have been the lead =
developer of the libapreq2 subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent=
Project. The original idea of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and =
Cookie parsing library came out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein an=
d Doug MacEachern in the late 90s.

;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color=
:rgb(246,246,239)">It was my vision back then to transform the library into=
a generic, non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings=
from other programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to=
be homes under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.

<=
p style=3D"color:rgb(130,130,130);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,239)">While this vision was w=
ildly successful, with language bindings available for several languages li=
ke Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since about 2010 its proven tragic for the exist=
ing user community consisting of all of them, not just Perl.

"color:rgb(130,130,130);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.=
3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,239)">What happened? Philip Gollucci, a=
Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at the time, started agitating that we promo=
te the project to be released from inside the HTTPd server itself. What Phi=
lip didn=E2=80=99t know very well back then was how utterly vapid and terri=
torial that team had become, which would have meant having to collaborate w=
ith them directly on user-facing decisions about the code base.

=3D"color:rgb(130,130,130);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:=
13.3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,239)">In 2012, Philip got what he wa=
nted and I stopped resisting, so he forked the existing project and copied =
the C library components into HTTPd core.

130);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-c=
olor:rgb(246,246,239)">In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You=
can guess the reasons.

erdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,2=
39)">In 2020 or so, Google=E2=80=99s Security Team took advantage of an alp=
ha release of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It found a=
few hotspots that needed repair.

t-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb=
(246,246,239)">Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or any=
one else involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd t=
eam went about the business of =E2=80=9Cbug fixing=E2=80=9D the vulnerabili=
ties Google found. You can see a record of his trial and error work in ever=
y release since then.

dana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,239=
)">But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the rookie d=
eveloper purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase, breaking a fif=
teen year old regression test.

amily:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb(24=
6,246,239)">If you are wondering how something with a broken regression tes=
t winds up on CPAN, you=E2=80=99ll have to look into how RELENG is done in =
the server project.

na,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,239)"=
>Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway, and c=
alled it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every prior release =
was susceptible to.

na,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-color:rgb(246,246,239)"=
>Why do I care now? Because I=E2=80=99m the sucker users reach out to for a=
nswers as a known subject matter expert.

30);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px;background-co=
lor:rgb(246,246,239)">This sucks, but I=E2=80=99m sorry to tell you that my=
days wearing the Superman cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.







--00000000000071ff7b0611aed590--

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MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
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--===============0396311161==--

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  83. 2024-02-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] cudu is being "open sourced"
  84. 2024-02-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] rembrandts
  85. 2024-02-23 Evgeny Grin <k2k-at-narod.ru> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU libmicrohttpd v1.0.1 released
  86. 2024-02-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] firefox security and webassembly and VMS
  87. 2024-02-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] FWIW - from my daughter..
  88. 2024-02-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Listening to it in first account is very sobbering
  89. 2024-02-27 From: "Miriam Bastian, FSF" <info-at-fsf.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Exciting talks, hands-on workshops,
  90. 2024-02-26 Touro Graduate School of Technology <info.gst-at-touro.edu> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Workshop Tonight: Ethics In AI Workshop : Feb
  91. 2024-02-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Donate $20 and put your name up
  92. 2024-02-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Contracting News: February 2024 Vendor
  93. 2024-02-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Swoden and the 4th amendment and this President
  94. 2024-02-24 Walt Mankowski <waltman-at-pobox.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] March 11 NY Perlmongers Social Meeting -

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