MESSAGE
| DATE | 2020-12-20 |
| FROM | John Dunlap
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] suggestions for perl as web development
|
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sun Dec 20 16:56:36 2020
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References:
<27779c3e56564c73a7fa49b49cc3f9f0-at-sanger.ac.uk>
In-Reply-To: <27779c3e56564c73a7fa49b49cc3f9f0-at-sanger.ac.uk>
From: John Dunlap
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2020 12:53:03 -0500
Message-ID:
To: James Smith
Cc: Wesley Peng , mod_perl list
Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] suggestions for perl as web development
language [EXT]
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In my opinion, no one should build new projects in Perl. The world is
increasingly trending towards parallelism and higher numbers of cpu cores
and Perl is poorly positioned to leverage these advancements. Many of
Perl's dependencies are not thread safe and mod_perl forces you to use
mpm_prefork. My organization has started moving away from Perl to Elixir
for these reasons.
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 3:37 AM James Smith wrote:
> Perl is a great solution for web development.
>
> Others will disagree but the best way I still believe is using mod_perl -
> but only if you use it's full power - and you probably need a special sort
> of mind set to use - but that can be said for any language.
>
> From experience - it may be fractionally slower than small "standalone"
> apps that dancer etc are good at, but it is (a) much, much more stable
> {dancer etc does not cope well with either large requests or lots of small
> requests}, and (b) if you have a large code base and/or a large number of
> services then it generally uses much less compute power than the others
> {can easily handle multiple services on a single apache instance}
>
> Where it really gains is the hooks into the apache process - being able to
> add functionality easily at any stage in the request process, from path
> translation, AAA stages, pre-processing, to post-processing and logging,
> and also to interact with other languages at any stage - e.g. can handle
> pre-processing & post-processing around a script written in another
> language (e.g. PHP, Java) or produced by another webserver integrated by
> mod_proxy.
>
> It isn't really a framework though like dancer or mojolicious and thus has
> its own advantages and disadvantages.
>
> You would to some extent have to roll your own code to produce the pages
> themselves although there are libraries out there to do lots of it.
>
> We have an in house library whose embryonic stages were written over 20
> years ago - and has now been stable for around 12-13 years and works
> strong...
>
> James
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wesley Peng
> Sent: 04 August 2020 06:43
> To: modperl-at-perl.apache.org
> Subject: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]
>
> greetings,
>
> My team use all of perl, ruby, python for scripting stuff.
> perl is stronger for system admin tasks, and data analysis etc.
> But for web development, it seems to be not as popular as others.
> It has less selective frameworks, and even we can't get the right people
> to do the webdev job with perl.
> Do you think in today we will give up perl/modperl as web development
> language, and choose the alternatives instead?
>
> Thanks & Regards
>
>
>
>
> --
> The Wellcome Sanger Institute is operated by Genome Research
> Limited, a charity registered in England with number 1021457 and a
> company registered in England with number 2742969, whose registered
> office is 215 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE.
--000000000000191ac505b6e90481
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In my opinion, no one should build new projects in Perl. =
The world is increasingly trending towards parallelism and higher numbers o=
f cpu cores and Perl is poorly positioned to leverage these advancements. M=
any of Perl's dependencies are not thread safe and mod_perl forces you =
to use mpm_prefork. My organization has started moving away from Perl to El=
ixir for these reasons.
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">Perl is a great solution for web development.
Others will disagree but the best way I still believe is using mod_perl - b=
ut only if you use it's full power - and you probably need a special so=
rt of mind set to use - but that can be said for any language.
>From experience - it may be fractionally slower than small "standalone=
" apps that dancer etc are good at, but it is (a) much, much more stab=
le {dancer etc does not cope well with either large requests or lots of sma=
ll requests}, and (b) if you have a large code base and/or a large number o=
f services then it generally uses much less compute power than the others {=
can easily handle multiple services on a single apache instance}
Where it really gains is the hooks into the apache process - being able to =
add functionality easily at any stage in the request process, from path tra=
nslation, AAA stages, pre-processing, to post-processing and logging, and a=
lso to interact with other languages at any stage - e.g. can handle pre-pro=
cessing & post-processing around a script written in another language (=
e.g. PHP, Java) or produced by another webserver integrated by mod_proxy.r>
It isn't really a framework though like dancer or mojolicious and thus =
has its own advantages and disadvantages.
You would to some extent have to roll your own code to produce the pages th=
emselves although there are libraries out there to do lots of it.
We have an in house library whose embryonic stages were written over 20 yea=
rs ago - and has now been stable for around 12-13 years and works strong...=
James
-----Original Message-----
From: Wesley Peng <el=3D"noreferrer">me-at-yonghua.org>
Sent: 04 August 2020 06:43
To: eferrer">modperl-at-perl.apache.org
Subject: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]
greetings,
My team use all of perl, ruby, python for scripting stuff.
perl is stronger for system admin tasks, and data analysis etc.
But for web development, it seems to be not as popular as others.
It has less selective frameworks, and even we can't get the right peopl=
e to do the webdev job with perl.
Do you think in today we will give up perl/modperl as web development langu=
age, and choose the alternatives instead?
Thanks & Regards
--
=C2=A0The Wellcome Sanger Institute is operated by Genome Research
=C2=A0Limited, a charity registered in England with number 1021457 and a r>
=C2=A0company registered in England with number 2742969, whose registered <=
br>
=C2=A0office is 215 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE.
--000000000000191ac505b6e90481--
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_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
--===============1473266030==--
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--000000000000191ac505b6e90481
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
In my opinion, no one should build new projects in Perl. The world is
increasingly trending towards parallelism and higher numbers of cpu cores
and Perl is poorly positioned to leverage these advancements. Many of
Perl's dependencies are not thread safe and mod_perl forces you to use
mpm_prefork. My organization has started moving away from Perl to Elixir
for these reasons.
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 3:37 AM James Smith wrote:
> Perl is a great solution for web development.
>
> Others will disagree but the best way I still believe is using mod_perl -
> but only if you use it's full power - and you probably need a special sort
> of mind set to use - but that can be said for any language.
>
> From experience - it may be fractionally slower than small "standalone"
> apps that dancer etc are good at, but it is (a) much, much more stable
> {dancer etc does not cope well with either large requests or lots of small
> requests}, and (b) if you have a large code base and/or a large number of
> services then it generally uses much less compute power than the others
> {can easily handle multiple services on a single apache instance}
>
> Where it really gains is the hooks into the apache process - being able to
> add functionality easily at any stage in the request process, from path
> translation, AAA stages, pre-processing, to post-processing and logging,
> and also to interact with other languages at any stage - e.g. can handle
> pre-processing & post-processing around a script written in another
> language (e.g. PHP, Java) or produced by another webserver integrated by
> mod_proxy.
>
> It isn't really a framework though like dancer or mojolicious and thus has
> its own advantages and disadvantages.
>
> You would to some extent have to roll your own code to produce the pages
> themselves although there are libraries out there to do lots of it.
>
> We have an in house library whose embryonic stages were written over 20
> years ago - and has now been stable for around 12-13 years and works
> strong...
>
> James
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wesley Peng
> Sent: 04 August 2020 06:43
> To: modperl-at-perl.apache.org
> Subject: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]
>
> greetings,
>
> My team use all of perl, ruby, python for scripting stuff.
> perl is stronger for system admin tasks, and data analysis etc.
> But for web development, it seems to be not as popular as others.
> It has less selective frameworks, and even we can't get the right people
> to do the webdev job with perl.
> Do you think in today we will give up perl/modperl as web development
> language, and choose the alternatives instead?
>
> Thanks & Regards
>
>
>
>
> --
> The Wellcome Sanger Institute is operated by Genome Research
> Limited, a charity registered in England with number 1021457 and a
> company registered in England with number 2742969, whose registered
> office is 215 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE.
--000000000000191ac505b6e90481
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In my opinion, no one should build new projects in Perl. =
The world is increasingly trending towards parallelism and higher numbers o=
f cpu cores and Perl is poorly positioned to leverage these advancements. M=
any of Perl's dependencies are not thread safe and mod_perl forces you =
to use mpm_prefork. My organization has started moving away from Perl to El=
ixir for these reasons.
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">Perl is a great solution for web development.
Others will disagree but the best way I still believe is using mod_perl - b=
ut only if you use it's full power - and you probably need a special so=
rt of mind set to use - but that can be said for any language.
>From experience - it may be fractionally slower than small "standalone=
" apps that dancer etc are good at, but it is (a) much, much more stab=
le {dancer etc does not cope well with either large requests or lots of sma=
ll requests}, and (b) if you have a large code base and/or a large number o=
f services then it generally uses much less compute power than the others {=
can easily handle multiple services on a single apache instance}
Where it really gains is the hooks into the apache process - being able to =
add functionality easily at any stage in the request process, from path tra=
nslation, AAA stages, pre-processing, to post-processing and logging, and a=
lso to interact with other languages at any stage - e.g. can handle pre-pro=
cessing & post-processing around a script written in another language (=
e.g. PHP, Java) or produced by another webserver integrated by mod_proxy.r>
It isn't really a framework though like dancer or mojolicious and thus =
has its own advantages and disadvantages.
You would to some extent have to roll your own code to produce the pages th=
emselves although there are libraries out there to do lots of it.
We have an in house library whose embryonic stages were written over 20 yea=
rs ago - and has now been stable for around 12-13 years and works strong...=
James
-----Original Message-----
From: Wesley Peng <el=3D"noreferrer">me-at-yonghua.org>
Sent: 04 August 2020 06:43
To: eferrer">modperl-at-perl.apache.org
Subject: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]
greetings,
My team use all of perl, ruby, python for scripting stuff.
perl is stronger for system admin tasks, and data analysis etc.
But for web development, it seems to be not as popular as others.
It has less selective frameworks, and even we can't get the right peopl=
e to do the webdev job with perl.
Do you think in today we will give up perl/modperl as web development langu=
age, and choose the alternatives instead?
Thanks & Regards
--
=C2=A0The Wellcome Sanger Institute is operated by Genome Research
=C2=A0Limited, a charity registered in England with number 1021457 and a r>
=C2=A0company registered in England with number 2742969, whose registered <=
br>
=C2=A0office is 215 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE.
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_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
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