MESSAGE
| DATE | 2020-08-04 |
| FROM | Mithun Bhattacharya
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] suggestions for perl as web development
|
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Thu Aug 6 22:03:08 2020
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In-Reply-To:
From: Mithun Bhattacharya
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 20:16:49 -0500
Message-ID:
To: jbiskofski
Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] suggestions for perl as web development
language [EXT]
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Mojo is good but it is specifically for fast non blocking services. If you
are trying to pull up old monolithic applications into the service based
world it might take significant rewrite or you use apache/mod_perl :)
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM jbiskofski wrote:
> Mod Perl is awesome. That said, the cool kids today are all about Plack.
>
> Google: Dancer, Mojolicious, Catalyst. These allow you to plugin to all
> parts of the HTTP protocol, but obviously not to modify apache
> configuration.
> Excelent, stable, FAST, production ready HTTP server: Starman
> Even faster, but not as proven: Twiggy.
>
> The most common setup would be with an Nginx process in front.
>
> I had a hard time accepting this was a good configuration because for 20
> years I had thought of webservers as big giant compiled systems (apache),
> but apparently you can now create something just as fast in Perl.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:59 PM Mithun Bhattacharya
> wrote:
>
>> The question is move off to what ? I don't see alternatives being shared
>> which blows an apache+mod_perl setup out of the water.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:56 PM Ruben Safir wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:48:48PM +0100, Mark Blackman wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun Bhattacharya
>>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known" means ?
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman >>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya >>> > wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient
>>> utilization of resources - this is important when fast response time an=
d
>>> scalability is important. The complexity is a known problem but it is n=
ot a
>>> mystery box either - there is enough documentation which explains what =
has
>>> to happen and what could have gone wrong.
>>> > >
>>> > > mod_perl=E2=80=99s relative efficiency can be achieved by other wel=
l-known
>>> means.
>>> >
>>> > That would depend on what you mean by "efficient utilisation of
>>> resources=E2=80=9D. You can get the same general effect, more simply, =
by running a
>>> high-performing pre-forking Perl web application server and a web serve=
r
>>> with a simple configuration in front of it ,instead of a complicated
>>> Apache+mod_perl installation.
>>> >
>>> > That also buys you a nice separation of concerns, the web server
>>> handles all the complicated host or path rewrites and access control an=
d
>>> the Perl app focuses on responding to the, now-sanitised, fully normali=
zed,
>>> HTTP requests.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Not really and the separtion is not a concern, it is an asset, the most
>>> important one.
>>>
>>> To get faster, you would need to move off apache.
>>>
>>>
>>> > - Mark
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
>>> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
>>> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
>>> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
>>>
>>> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
>>> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
>>> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
>>> http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
>>> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>>>
>>> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
>>> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
>>>
>>>
--000000000000fdaa5905ac1720fa
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mojo is good but it is specifically for fast non blocking =
services. If you are trying to pull up old monolithic applications into the=
service based world it might take significant rewrite or you use apache/mo=
d_perl :)
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Mod Perl is awesom= e. That said, the cool kids today are all about Plack.
G=
oogle: Dancer, Mojolicious, Catalyst. These allow you to plugin to all part=
s of the HTTP protocol, but obviously=C2=A0not to modify apache configurati=
on.=C2=A0 Excelent, stable, FAST, production ready HTTP server:=
=C2=A0Starman Even faster, but not as proven: Twiggy.
iv>
The most common setup would be with an Nginx process in f=
ront.
I had a hard time accepting this was a good =
configuration because for 20 years I had thought of webservers=C2=A0as big =
giant compiled systems (apache), but apparently=C2=A0you can now create som=
ething just as fast in Perl.
<=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"> class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The question is mov=
e off to what ? I don't see alternatives being shared which blows an ap=
ache+mod_perl setup out of the water.
<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:56 PM Ruben S= afir < ruben-at-mrbr=
klyn.com> wrote: "margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex">On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:48:48PM +0100, Mark Blackman wrote:
>
>
> > On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun Bhattacharya <o:mithnb-at-gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mithnb-at-gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known"=
; means ?
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman <o:mark-at-blackmans.org" target=3D"_blank">mark-at-blackmans.org <mailto:<=
a href=3D"mailto:mark-at-blackmans.org" target=3D"_blank">mark-at-blackmans.orga>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya <mailto:mithnb-at-gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mithnb-at-gmail.com <mailto:=
mithnb-at-gmail.com&=
gt;> wrote:
> > >
> > > mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient ut=
ilization of resources - this is important when fast response time and scal=
ability is important. The complexity is a known problem but it is not a mys=
tery box either - there is enough documentation which explains what has to =
happen and what could have gone wrong.
> >
> > mod_perl=E2=80=99s relative efficiency can be achieved by other w=
ell-known means.
>
> That would depend on what you mean by=C2=A0 "efficient utilisatio=
n of resources=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 You can get the same general effect, more si=
mply, by running a high-performing pre-forking Perl web application server =
and a web server with a simple configuration in front of it ,instead of a c=
omplicated Apache+mod_perl installation.
>
> That also buys you a nice separation of concerns, the web server handl=
es all the complicated host or path rewrites and access control and the Per=
l app focuses on responding to the, now-sanitised, fully normalized, HTTP r=
equests.
>
Not really and the separtion is not a concern, it is an asset, the most
important one.
To get faster, you would need to move off apache.
> - Mark
>
>
>
--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
ht=
tp://www.mrbrklyn.com
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http:=
//www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
"_blank">http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
>http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
ank">http://www.brooklyn-living.com
Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
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_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
--===============1318360571==--
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Mojo is good but it is specifically for fast non blocking services. If you
are trying to pull up old monolithic applications into the service based
world it might take significant rewrite or you use apache/mod_perl :)
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM jbiskofski wrote:
> Mod Perl is awesome. That said, the cool kids today are all about Plack.
>
> Google: Dancer, Mojolicious, Catalyst. These allow you to plugin to all
> parts of the HTTP protocol, but obviously not to modify apache
> configuration.
> Excelent, stable, FAST, production ready HTTP server: Starman
> Even faster, but not as proven: Twiggy.
>
> The most common setup would be with an Nginx process in front.
>
> I had a hard time accepting this was a good configuration because for 20
> years I had thought of webservers as big giant compiled systems (apache),
> but apparently you can now create something just as fast in Perl.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:59 PM Mithun Bhattacharya
> wrote:
>
>> The question is move off to what ? I don't see alternatives being shared
>> which blows an apache+mod_perl setup out of the water.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:56 PM Ruben Safir wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:48:48PM +0100, Mark Blackman wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun Bhattacharya
>>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known" means ?
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman >>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya >>> > wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient
>>> utilization of resources - this is important when fast response time an=
d
>>> scalability is important. The complexity is a known problem but it is n=
ot a
>>> mystery box either - there is enough documentation which explains what =
has
>>> to happen and what could have gone wrong.
>>> > >
>>> > > mod_perl=E2=80=99s relative efficiency can be achieved by other wel=
l-known
>>> means.
>>> >
>>> > That would depend on what you mean by "efficient utilisation of
>>> resources=E2=80=9D. You can get the same general effect, more simply, =
by running a
>>> high-performing pre-forking Perl web application server and a web serve=
r
>>> with a simple configuration in front of it ,instead of a complicated
>>> Apache+mod_perl installation.
>>> >
>>> > That also buys you a nice separation of concerns, the web server
>>> handles all the complicated host or path rewrites and access control an=
d
>>> the Perl app focuses on responding to the, now-sanitised, fully normali=
zed,
>>> HTTP requests.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Not really and the separtion is not a concern, it is an asset, the most
>>> important one.
>>>
>>> To get faster, you would need to move off apache.
>>>
>>>
>>> > - Mark
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
>>> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
>>> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
>>> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
>>>
>>> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
>>> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
>>> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
>>> http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
>>> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>>>
>>> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
>>> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
>>>
>>>
--000000000000fdaa5905ac1720fa
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mojo is good but it is specifically for fast non blocking =
services. If you are trying to pull up old monolithic applications into the=
service based world it might take significant rewrite or you use apache/mo=
d_perl :)
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Mod Perl is awesom= e. That said, the cool kids today are all about Plack.
G=
oogle: Dancer, Mojolicious, Catalyst. These allow you to plugin to all part=
s of the HTTP protocol, but obviously=C2=A0not to modify apache configurati=
on.=C2=A0 Excelent, stable, FAST, production ready HTTP server:=
=C2=A0Starman Even faster, but not as proven: Twiggy.
iv>
The most common setup would be with an Nginx process in f=
ront.
I had a hard time accepting this was a good =
configuration because for 20 years I had thought of webservers=C2=A0as big =
giant compiled systems (apache), but apparently=C2=A0you can now create som=
ething just as fast in Perl.
<=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"> class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The question is mov=
e off to what ? I don't see alternatives being shared which blows an ap=
ache+mod_perl setup out of the water.
<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:56 PM Ruben S= afir < ruben-at-mrbr=
klyn.com> wrote: "margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex">On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:48:48PM +0100, Mark Blackman wrote:
>
>
> > On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun Bhattacharya <o:mithnb-at-gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mithnb-at-gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known"=
; means ?
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman <o:mark-at-blackmans.org" target=3D"_blank">mark-at-blackmans.org <mailto:<=
a href=3D"mailto:mark-at-blackmans.org" target=3D"_blank">mark-at-blackmans.orga>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya <mailto:mithnb-at-gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mithnb-at-gmail.com <mailto:=
mithnb-at-gmail.com&=
gt;> wrote:
> > >
> > > mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient ut=
ilization of resources - this is important when fast response time and scal=
ability is important. The complexity is a known problem but it is not a mys=
tery box either - there is enough documentation which explains what has to =
happen and what could have gone wrong.
> >
> > mod_perl=E2=80=99s relative efficiency can be achieved by other w=
ell-known means.
>
> That would depend on what you mean by=C2=A0 "efficient utilisatio=
n of resources=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 You can get the same general effect, more si=
mply, by running a high-performing pre-forking Perl web application server =
and a web server with a simple configuration in front of it ,instead of a c=
omplicated Apache+mod_perl installation.
>
> That also buys you a nice separation of concerns, the web server handl=
es all the complicated host or path rewrites and access control and the Per=
l app focuses on responding to the, now-sanitised, fully normalized, HTTP r=
equests.
>
Not really and the separtion is not a concern, it is an asset, the most
important one.
To get faster, you would need to move off apache.
> - Mark
>
>
>
--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
ht=
tp://www.mrbrklyn.com
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http:=
//www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
"_blank">http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
>http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
ank">http://www.brooklyn-living.com
Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
--000000000000fdaa5905ac1720fa--
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MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
--===============1318360571==--
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