MESSAGE
| DATE | 2020-02-20 |
| FROM | Ruben Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] State of the GNUnion 2020
|
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 02:45:02PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Dmitry Gutov, le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 15:31:17 +0200, a ecrit:
> > On 20.02.2020 14:41, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > > Okay, sure. But going back to Eli's point, the development activity of
> > > > individual projects is determined by individual project's members, and is
> > > > rarely affected by the actions of the leadership.
> > >
> > > The activity by itself, yes, but the choice of where to start a new
> > > project, or starting contributing an existing project, leadership does
> > > have a lot of importance.
> >
> > What kind of choice? Contributors come and go, largely depending on their
> > own needs and interests.
>
> Yes, but also, and I believe most likely, depending on their knowledge
> of project places (github vs gitlabs vs savannah) and the contact they
> get with the people there. The GNU project is less and less known
> compared to other free software platforms, so it'll get less and less
> newcomers.
>
> > > > And it's a more difficult endeavor (think Mozilla-type initiatives) than
> > > > just releasing a document saying "hi all we don't discriminate and accept
> > > > everyone", which is basically stating the already obvious.
> > >
> > > From seeing the discussions here, it doesn't seem so obvious :/
> >
> > Really? For all the shouting and stomping of feet, I haven't seen here any
> > one email stating or even implying that the gender or the race of a
> > contributor is somehow important, or that we'd turn somebody away because of
> > it.
>
> Sure, the contrary was explicitly said indeed. But anything one can
> bring about not only acknowledging it, but also making efforts on
> inclusiveness is mostly rejected with arguments like "it's too hard to
> take care when writing something on a mailing list".
>
> > On the flip side, an argument is made that your initiative might make GNU
> > more exclusionary because of the extra conditions on what it takes to be a
> > part of it.
>
> At some point you have to exclude some people in order to include other
> people, yes. We can see that in various communities: when somebody is
> having a toxic behavior and does not changes behavior even after strong
> warnings, one has to exclude that person, because otherwise that person
> will make a lot other people fly away. Not taking the steps to exclude
> the toxic person does mean excluding people that can not stand the toxic
> behavior, even if that latter exclusion is not explicit.
>
> That seems to be the ground of what some people do not understand here:
> full inclusiveness can not work, there will always be some people you
> will be excluding one way or the other, voluntarily or not. Making sure
> that the choice of who you exclude gets written down seems important to
> me.
>
That is bullshit. You just want to set up a condition for removing the
current leadership and pssing everyone off with your ancelliary SWJ
crappola.
Take it on the road.
GNU, like any other organization, has to maintain a non-discrimantory
practice under US law. It doesn't need any help whatsoever.
GNU, as a fact, today, discriminates against NOBODY..
It needs to ban the leadership of that wiki, though.
--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com
Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
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