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| DATE | 2020-02-07 |
| FROM | From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?=
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [rms@gnu.org: What's GNU -- and what's not]
|
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Mon Feb 10 06:23:18 2020
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From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?=
To: ams-at-gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt), Richard Stallman
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Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [rms-at-gnu.org: What's GNU -- and what's not]
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Hello,
ams-at-gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) skribis:
> From: "Richard Stallman (Chief GNUisance)"
> Subject: What's GNU -- and what's not
> To: rms-at-gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2020 18:26:51 -0500 (2 days, 11 hours, 43 minutes ago)
>
> The GNU Project is sending this message to each GNU package=20
> maintainer.
Thank you Alfred for forwarding this message. I suppose it was sent to
a subset of the maintainers since I didn=E2=80=99t receive it.
> You may have recently received an email asking you to review a
> document titled "GNU Social Contract" and then to endorse it or reject
> it. It does not entirely accord with the GNU Project's views. It was
> created by some GNU participants who are trying to push changes
> on the GNU Project.
>
> The message also proposed to "define" what it means to be a "member of
> GNU", and cited a web page presented as a "wiki for GNU maintainers",
> It may have given the impression that they were doing all those things
> on behalf of the GNU Project. That is not the case. The document,=20
> the
> wiki, and the proposed idea of "members" have no standing in the GNU
> Project, which is not considering such steps. The use of a domain not
> affiliated with GNU reflects this fact.
>
> GNU package maintainers have committed to do work to maintain and add
> to the GNU system, but not anything beyond that. We have never
> pressed contributors to endorse the GNU Project philosophy, or any
> other philosophical views, because people are welcome to contribute to
> GNU regardless of their views.
I feel sad to see you try to shut down discussion, Richard.
Formally endorsing a core set of values can only make GNU stronger in my
view. It=E2=80=99s also a necessary step to allow some of the project=E2=
=80=99s
decision-making to be delegated to maintainers=E2=80=94you were the one who
pointed out that maintainers do not currently agree to uphold the
project=E2=80=99s values, and thus cannot be trusted, and this is precisely=
what
the Social Contract is fixing.
I don=E2=80=99t see how telling people to ignore those =E2=80=9CGNU partici=
pants who are
trying to push changes on the GNU Project=E2=80=9D is a contribution to the
well-being of the project.
[...]
> The wiki that they set up "for GNU maintainers" represents them, not
> the GNU Project. People are always free to publish what they think
> the GNU Project should do, but should not presume it will be accepted
> or followed by the GNU Project.
You=E2=80=99re bringing up a key question: what=E2=80=99s GNU, and what=E2=
=80=99s not?
When you mention =E2=80=9Cthe GNU Project=E2=80=99s views=E2=80=9D above, w=
hose views are these?
When you write that the =E2=80=9Cwiki [=E2=80=A6] represents them=E2=80=9D,=
where =E2=80=9Cthem=E2=80=9D refers
to the loosely-defined =E2=80=9Csome GNU participants=E2=80=9D, are you imp=
lying that
=E2=80=9Cthey=E2=80=9D are not really part of GNU? Are you forgetting that=
the wiki is
open to all GNU maintainers?
More importantly, what message are you sending to fellow GNU hackers who
build GNU every day, who _are_ GNU? That they=E2=80=99ll never be part of =
the
process to decide what=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Caccepted or followed by the GNU P=
roject=E2=80=9D?
I fail to see a vision for the future of GNU. What you describe is far
away from the ambition of building a cohesive GNU Project, with shared
responsibilities. Many in GNU would like to see it happen and I will
keep working for it with all the GNU hackers who want to help shape GNU.
Thank you,
Ludo=E2=80=99.
--=-=-=
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_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
--===============0842025292==--
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Hello,
ams-at-gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) skribis:
> From: "Richard Stallman (Chief GNUisance)"
> Subject: What's GNU -- and what's not
> To: rms-at-gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2020 18:26:51 -0500 (2 days, 11 hours, 43 minutes ago)
>
> The GNU Project is sending this message to each GNU package=20
> maintainer.
Thank you Alfred for forwarding this message. I suppose it was sent to
a subset of the maintainers since I didn=E2=80=99t receive it.
> You may have recently received an email asking you to review a
> document titled "GNU Social Contract" and then to endorse it or reject
> it. It does not entirely accord with the GNU Project's views. It was
> created by some GNU participants who are trying to push changes
> on the GNU Project.
>
> The message also proposed to "define" what it means to be a "member of
> GNU", and cited a web page presented as a "wiki for GNU maintainers",
> It may have given the impression that they were doing all those things
> on behalf of the GNU Project. That is not the case. The document,=20
> the
> wiki, and the proposed idea of "members" have no standing in the GNU
> Project, which is not considering such steps. The use of a domain not
> affiliated with GNU reflects this fact.
>
> GNU package maintainers have committed to do work to maintain and add
> to the GNU system, but not anything beyond that. We have never
> pressed contributors to endorse the GNU Project philosophy, or any
> other philosophical views, because people are welcome to contribute to
> GNU regardless of their views.
I feel sad to see you try to shut down discussion, Richard.
Formally endorsing a core set of values can only make GNU stronger in my
view. It=E2=80=99s also a necessary step to allow some of the project=E2=
=80=99s
decision-making to be delegated to maintainers=E2=80=94you were the one who
pointed out that maintainers do not currently agree to uphold the
project=E2=80=99s values, and thus cannot be trusted, and this is precisely=
what
the Social Contract is fixing.
I don=E2=80=99t see how telling people to ignore those =E2=80=9CGNU partici=
pants who are
trying to push changes on the GNU Project=E2=80=9D is a contribution to the
well-being of the project.
[...]
> The wiki that they set up "for GNU maintainers" represents them, not
> the GNU Project. People are always free to publish what they think
> the GNU Project should do, but should not presume it will be accepted
> or followed by the GNU Project.
You=E2=80=99re bringing up a key question: what=E2=80=99s GNU, and what=E2=
=80=99s not?
When you mention =E2=80=9Cthe GNU Project=E2=80=99s views=E2=80=9D above, w=
hose views are these?
When you write that the =E2=80=9Cwiki [=E2=80=A6] represents them=E2=80=9D,=
where =E2=80=9Cthem=E2=80=9D refers
to the loosely-defined =E2=80=9Csome GNU participants=E2=80=9D, are you imp=
lying that
=E2=80=9Cthey=E2=80=9D are not really part of GNU? Are you forgetting that=
the wiki is
open to all GNU maintainers?
More importantly, what message are you sending to fellow GNU hackers who
build GNU every day, who _are_ GNU? That they=E2=80=99ll never be part of =
the
process to decide what=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Caccepted or followed by the GNU P=
roject=E2=80=9D?
I fail to see a vision for the future of GNU. What you describe is far
away from the ambition of building a cohesive GNU Project, with shared
responsibilities. Many in GNU would like to see it happen and I will
keep working for it with all the GNU hackers who want to help shape GNU.
Thank you,
Ludo=E2=80=99.
--=-=-=
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_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
--===============0842025292==--
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