MESSAGE
| DATE | 2019-10-31 |
| FROM | Ruben Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Women and GNU and RMS (was Re: something else)
|
My belief is that organizations need to take a very aggressive stand
against this kind of muck raking activity. Aside from it being a moral
imperative that the FSF, GNU and the world in general take a firm stand
against lynch mobs and the attack on due process, there is the practical
matter that these things be discourage. The problem here isn't an issue
of if we would like to have more women in GNU and Tech, but the
aggressive personal attack on groups of people, in this case, white
older men. People who repeat patently false allegations at others, in
this case we are talking about Sandra Loosemore's false accusations at
Richard Stallman, but by no means not JUST her, such people should be
censored and if necessary GNU and the FSF should disassociate themselves
with them with a short and blunt PR statement that the behavior of these
individuals is not with compatible with the ethics and goals of the FSF
and GNU, and they should be removed.
Now, Richard doesn't want to do this, because he is a strong believer in
tolerance, freespeach and political discourse. But in this case, we are
way past political discourse when people are allowed to use GNU as a
platform to screem damaging and false statements against whole classes
of people (older white males) and individuals specifically, in this case
Richard Stallman. Nobody deserves to be treated like this, no matter
how urgent the issue, or how certain they are of their own political
thinking.
And just as an aside, and not directly related to the issue, I find the
entire Women's movement, such as it is being played out in this context,
wholly unsatisfying as a human rights issue. This is just another
example where white people, or those in the majority position in the US
and Europe, use the real language and context of the real racism that is
suffered on Black American's and the civil rights movement, and co-opt
it for their own purpose.
The last 30 years, NYLXS and I personally have battled to bring GNU and
Free Software into the belly of the beast, the deep ghettos of NYC, in
Brooklyn and the Bronx, where educational opportunities and the ability
to participate in the digital revolution and the digital economy has
been blocked, adding to the suffering for the inner-city minority
communities across the US.
We have plenty of white women, white gay men, etc in the community. And
if those run out we can import more with the H2B visa program. Where
we are really suffering and where is it hurting our society as a whole,
is the continued isolation of black urban communities, and not some
white women who wants us to believe that she suffers and is being
shunned because of the indignity of needing hear some old white men
using an outdated metaphors about virginity when discussing the
experience of learning Emacs. Truly, it makes no sense. It is selfish
and mean spirited and immoral. It is also, and this is the main point,
it is lazy. It is so easy to hide your eyes and prevent your exposure
to this garbage. Stallman is made temporarily homeless? Not my
problem, right. Why should I stick my neck out for him. But trying to
change the mindset of a class of 50 black students in Thomas Jefferson
HS by teaching Free Software, both the technology and the theology, and
to grow peoples egos and empower them, that is real hard. One can get
really hurt in that situation. Richard isn't going to pull a knife out
and stab you because you insulted him, but some raging kid in the ghetto
might just do that.
pfff
On 10/31/19 12:31 PM, Gabe Stanton via General GNU project and free
software discussions wrote:
> It seems their divisive techniques are continuing, and evolving. I
> believe the use of (and acceptance of) the use of "old white men" to
> describe people is an extension of what is seen on television and other
> junk outlets. It seems they want to make all places and conversations
> the same, selectively divisive.Â
> Some people are okay to lump together and denigrate, others are
> 'protected' for some reason. How is that anything but divisive. They
> want some people to join, and others to leave. That's not inclusive or
> helpful to the cause. It's an attempt to divide the community. Why make
> it more comfortable for anyone just to kick out anyone who is 'old',
> 'white', or 'male', or heaven forbid, all three.
>
> What do we do then? Speak up and possibly help in dividing the
> community? Stay silent until something really makes us upset? Form
> another group, (that's dividing, that seems like not the best idea).
>
> I think gnu should focus on software freedoms and let individual
> grievances be handled individually instead of initiating or
> contributing to a smear campaign. Please if you feel the same (and have
> read this far), make your voice heard somewhere, even if it's not here.
> Let the free software movement stay on task and not be divided or
> distracted.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2019-10-31 at 11:51 +0100, Jean Louis wrote:
>> * Mark Wielaard [2019-10-31 10:52]:
>>> On Wed, 2019-10-30 at 22:04 -0500, wayne, steve wrote:
>>>> I'll probably mute this thread after hitting send so you would be
>>>> wasting invective for my sake but if it makes you feel better,
>>>> knock
>>>> yourself out.
>>>
>>> No, we are not going to knock ourselves out. Be respectful to your
>>> fellow GNU volunteers. Sexist attacks on someone pointing out
>>> sexism or
>>> calling them hysterical is totally uncalled for. If your
>>> experiences
>>> are different, then feel free to point that out. But belittling
>>> someones experiences by attacking their credentials and character
>>> is
>>> not acceptable. Neither is calling people part of a mob and
>>> criticizing
>>> them for wrongs that you only speculate they may have done.
>>>
>>> Also see:
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnu-misc-discuss/2019-10/msg0013
>>> 9.html
>>
>> It is hypocritical.
>>
>> This message:
>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnu-misc-discuss/2019-10/msg00162.
>> html
>>
>> was not censored. You are censoring responses to that message. That
>> is
>> hypocritical.
>>
>> Did you see in that message calling people "old white men"? Based
>> upon
>> your own standards of what is kind and what not, it is kind to call
>> "old white men" but it is not kind to respond to such allegations?
>>
>> Defaming RMS for "disgusting public comments defending sexual
>> exploitation of minors" which is absolutely not true, and which was
>> debunked in my message that you censored is fine, but my message is
>> not fine:
>> https://gnu.support/richard-stallman/Censorship-of-the-answer-to-Sand
>> ra-Loosemore-defamation-of-the-founder-of-GNU-project-on-gnu-misc-
>> discuss-mailing-list-30th-October-2019.html
>>
>> One big LOL to that!
--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www.brooklyn-living.com
Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
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