MESSAGE
| DATE | 2019-10-12 |
| FROM | Mikhail Kryshen
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Joint statement on the GNU Project
|
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sun Oct 13 01:37:29 2019
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From: Mikhail Kryshen
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=
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GNU Guix maintainers
Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Joint statement on the GNU Project
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Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes:
> Hi Mikhail,
>
> Mikhail Kryshen skribis:
>
>> I'm deeply disappointed to see this. I always thought that the free
>> software community have strong and independent culture, and it's very
>> sad to see GNU maintainers, for whose work I have great respect, fall
>> for the moral panic that is being spread by news and social media
>
> [...]
>
>> This leads to dissolution of the free software culture and its
>> ethical values with the influence of media and corporations that are
>> hostile towards software freedom.
>
> I respectfully think that your interpretation is incorrect.
>
> Keep in mind that each of the signatories has typically more than 10
> years of experience as developer or maintainer of GNU (more than that
> for some.) They have dedicated a large part of their life to that, and
> they have worked a lot with GNU and RMS. So it really isn=E2=80=99t abou=
t what
> =E2=80=9Cthe media=E2=80=9D said last week or the week before.
Is it true then, that you intentionally and knowingly tried to take
advantage of the dishonest media attack on RMS and of its consequences?
Otherwise, how else would you explain the timing of your action? For
now I'd rather stick to my interpretation of you acting under moral
panic, as it is the least bad one.
> Perhaps you find our decision hard to understand, or perhaps you
> disagree with it, but remember that we have a different perspective.
>
> RMS created GNU, but GNU has long expanded beyond RMS, and free software
> has expanded way beyond GNU, too. We must keep it striving and reach
> out to those who=E2=80=99ve not yet joined us to share the software!
I share your values, I too want our community to be welcoming, inclusive
and harassment-free. The problem is not with the values you are trying
to defend, but with your methods. First the introduction of CoC and
then publication of the statement promoted fear, tension and hatred in
the community, alienated potential users and contributors, gave further
rise to moral panics (both "SJW" and anti-SJW, as you can see in the
discussions that followed) and made us more vulnerable to hostile
manipulation, as people under any moral panic are easily weaponized
against others (this is being widely used in politics all over the
world).
For a year now I've been promoting Guix at my university, and I'm
supporting it on close to a hundred of workstations there, it's too late
to back out, but I would not have started it today and probably would
have restrained myself to only using Guix on my own computer just for
technical curiosity, because my confidence in the future of GNU and Guix
is shaken, and the community does not look welcoming any more.
=2D-
Mikhail
--=-=-=
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_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
--===============0586764171==--
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Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes:
> Hi Mikhail,
>
> Mikhail Kryshen skribis:
>
>> I'm deeply disappointed to see this. I always thought that the free
>> software community have strong and independent culture, and it's very
>> sad to see GNU maintainers, for whose work I have great respect, fall
>> for the moral panic that is being spread by news and social media
>
> [...]
>
>> This leads to dissolution of the free software culture and its
>> ethical values with the influence of media and corporations that are
>> hostile towards software freedom.
>
> I respectfully think that your interpretation is incorrect.
>
> Keep in mind that each of the signatories has typically more than 10
> years of experience as developer or maintainer of GNU (more than that
> for some.) They have dedicated a large part of their life to that, and
> they have worked a lot with GNU and RMS. So it really isn=E2=80=99t abou=
t what
> =E2=80=9Cthe media=E2=80=9D said last week or the week before.
Is it true then, that you intentionally and knowingly tried to take
advantage of the dishonest media attack on RMS and of its consequences?
Otherwise, how else would you explain the timing of your action? For
now I'd rather stick to my interpretation of you acting under moral
panic, as it is the least bad one.
> Perhaps you find our decision hard to understand, or perhaps you
> disagree with it, but remember that we have a different perspective.
>
> RMS created GNU, but GNU has long expanded beyond RMS, and free software
> has expanded way beyond GNU, too. We must keep it striving and reach
> out to those who=E2=80=99ve not yet joined us to share the software!
I share your values, I too want our community to be welcoming, inclusive
and harassment-free. The problem is not with the values you are trying
to defend, but with your methods. First the introduction of CoC and
then publication of the statement promoted fear, tension and hatred in
the community, alienated potential users and contributors, gave further
rise to moral panics (both "SJW" and anti-SJW, as you can see in the
discussions that followed) and made us more vulnerable to hostile
manipulation, as people under any moral panic are easily weaponized
against others (this is being widely used in politics all over the
world).
For a year now I've been promoting Guix at my university, and I'm
supporting it on close to a hundred of workstations there, it's too late
to back out, but I would not have started it today and probably would
have restrained myself to only using Guix on my own computer just for
technical curiosity, because my confidence in the future of GNU and Guix
is shaken, and the community does not look welcoming any more.
=2D-
Mikhail
--=-=-=
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_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
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