MESSAGE
| DATE | 2019-10-12 |
| FROM | Jean Louis
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Joint statement on the GNU Project
|
Dear Taylan,
See my comments below.
* Taylan Kammer [2019-10-11 20:42]:
> On 07.10.2019 16:32, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> > Hello Guix!
> >
> > We, a group of GNU maintainers sharing a vision for a stronger GNU
> > Project, are publishing this statement today:
> >
> > https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/
> >
> > We are somewhat abusing the Guix blog here, for lack of a better
> > place, but OTOH the future of GNU is obviously relevant to Guix.
> > (Ricardo and I started this initiative before Tobias, Maxim, and
> > Marius were on-board.)
> >
> > This mailing list is maybe not the best place to discuss this in
> > detail but your local GNU maintainers will surely be happy to answer
> > any questions you may have. :-)
> >
> > Ludo’.
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Some drama about this leaked out of my mailing list-specific sub-folders
> (which I only skim occasionally) into my main INBOX, so of course I had to
> jump straight into it even though I'm barely around these days. ;-)
>
>
> Jokes aside, I wanted to ask:
>
> Hasn't RMS already officially stepped down? What position does he hold
> within today's GNU project other than being a wise old person (wise with
> respect to his topics of expertise) who is respected a lot?
RMS is doing what he was doing last decades, promoting free software
in the world, establishing policies, finding allies, finding donations
for the FSF, establishing free software licenses, providing
infrastructure through FSF for free sofware.
For example on September 4th 2019, he visited Microsoft Research and
promoted GNU, GNU GPL, difference between GNU and Linux kernel and
asked for polishing of Github licensing requirement, see:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/free-software-advocate-richard-stallman-spoke-at-microsoft-research-this-week/
His position as a leader need not be technical as that may be is
something that you are expecting. There are many technical-only free
software projects, but that is not free software politics.
RMS is politican in regards to free software.
Ludovic Courtès and Andy Wingo and other people who are introducing
their pro-feminist political views into the apolitical GNU project
are mixing the independent GNU project with their feminist stances.
But GNU project was, is, and will be always apolitical. Freedom zero
is apolitical. And GNU project was for everybody, something that
Ludovic Courtès, Andy Wingo and other members of the Thoughtpolice
Squad[1] do not allow. They must punish anybody in GNU project for
Thoughtcrime[2].
> From what I can tell, the GNU project is a collection of very
> loosely coupled sub-projects and the maintainers and contributors
> collectively hold a lot more power than any single person. So in a
> way I guess I don't really see what the statement is trying to
> accomplish, although I agree with the sentiment of it. What is the
> desired effect and end result of publishing the statement?
What they wish to achieve is to remove Stallman for reasons of
Thoughtcrime as he expressed viewpoints such as abort() joke and Emacs
Virgin jokes that were offending for pro-feminist movement, so they
introduce feminist related political crap into GNU project and wish to
remove Stallman.
But GNU project and Stallman was and is apolitical in everything
related to free software.
Personal views of Stallman, of Ludovioc Courtès or Andy Wingo can be
published elsewhere, just as Andy Wingo published that fact-less
nonsense on his own blog.
None of them is true free software politician, they are of technical
sort of people, programmers, not knowing how to make differences in
society others but by programming.
They are not holding speeches or trying to police Github policy on
licensing issues.
They are bashing on RMS and anybody else who is contra-feminist, which
has no place neither in Guix nor in GNU projects.
As GNU project is apolitical and will stay so. It is welcoming nazis,
as long as they do not abuse GNU project resources for their political
views, and it is welcoming anti-nazis and anti-fashists for as long as
they stick to GNU project free software politics and not abuse GNU
project for their political purposes.
It is welcoming feminists and those supporting feminist views, like
few of Guix people, but for as long as they do not abuse the GNU
project for the reasons of their outside politics.
Yet they abused it.
> Assuming the talk about RMS's behavior includes his voicing of
> certain unpopular opinions, rather than just behavior that directly
> targets a person (like undesired advances), are we going to have a
> discussion about which opinions are considered taboo within the GNU
> project?
That is exactly the point. We shall not and principle that RMS have
set for GNU is to remain apolitical, no politics within GNU project
others but free software and human rights related to computing.
One thing that people agree upon is GNU as free operating system, this
brings all people together, canibalists, and those who are not, people
eating their nail skin, and those who are not eating their nail skin,
people who abort children, and those who do not abort children,
feminists and non-feminists, and independent people, nazis, not-nazis,
criminals of all kinds, and decent people, all kinds of religious
people and atheists, it really does not matter. GNU project was
apolitical and is apolitical.
> That is, opinions which shall not be expressed while working with
> other GNU contributors, or not expressed publicly at all by high
> ranking representatives such as maintainers of important (or any)
> packages?
The principle have been already set. See:
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html "Please don't
raise unrelated political issues in GNU Project discussions, because
they are off-topic. The only political positions that the GNU Project
endorses are (1) that users should have control of their own computing
(for instance, through free software) and (2) supporting basic human
rights in computing. We don't require you as a contributor to agree
with these two points, but you do need to accept that our decisions
will be based on them."
Guix leaders think they can take feminist stances on GNU project
pages.
I think they shall either refrain from doing so, or somebody from FSF
or GNU like RMS himself shall remove their political stances from
guix.gnu.org, or they shall have balls and make their own
feminist-only free software project and make it elsewhere but not
while abusing GNU and FSF resources. If feminists would have balls, I
don't know.
> I wouldn't be *categorically* opposed to such limitations. For instance I
> would welcome a rule that officially bans sympathizing with
> neo-Nazis.
GNU project and GNU software project pages shall be free of any
politics.
Whatever any GNU maintainer is thinking beyond the GNU project and GNU
project software pages shall not be punishable by any kind of
Thoughtpolice Squads.
> My personal suggestion would be to keep a very small list of
> explicit limitations, probably just the support or apologia of
> neo-Nazism and child sexual exploitation.
If you introduce such ideas, you are opposing freedom zero.
GNU project shall remain apolitical. Regardless if criminal hyrself is
writing GNU software.
Authors of GNU software shall have full liability for whatever
political personal views. Same for GNU maintainers and same for RMS.
And such political views shall be forbidden on GNU project pages.
Simple.
Take politics out of GNU.
That was what was creating community.
Introducing feminism into GNU is what is destroying community.
> Voicing such opinions on any channel of the GNU project would be a
> reason to terminate someone's access to the channel.
Yes, but in mild manner to first warn the person to keep politics out.
> Voicing them on any public channel would disqualify someone from
> maintainer and similar positions, and perhaps allow other members to
> raise a complaint against their involvement as a contributor too.
Voicing politics other but free software as a maintainer should be
considered treason and person shall be removed immediately. That is
abuse of community's values.
> I think it's important to have such an explicitly and clearly laid out set
> of rules on what world-views get to be silenced, as otherwise you get
> repeated arguments about free speech.
I totally agreed on that. It is already here:
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html
"Please don't raise unrelated political issues in GNU Project
discussions, because they are off-topic. The only political positions
that the GNU Project endorses are (1) that users should have control
of their own computing (for instance, through free software) and (2)
supporting basic human rights in computing. We don't require you as a
contributor to agree with these two points, but you do need to accept
that our decisions will be based on them."
It is just about enforcing, somebody has to enforce it.
> All other political conflicts should IMO be decided on a case by
> case basis with the goal of reaching mutual compromise within the
> confines of the communication channels of the GNU project.
I don't think so. Nobody in GNU project shall use GNU resources to
discuss any politics other but free software politics.
> That is, 1. no favorites on who gets to silence who and 2. the
> silencing shall be limited to the project's communication channels.
> For example let's take homosexuality and religion. A gay community
> member could request another member to refrain from expressing
> religious views critical of homosexuality within the project's
> communication channels, as it offends her or him. On the flip side,
> a religious person could request another member to refrain from
> expressing political views in support of normalizing homosexuality
> within society, because that in turn offends them. Outside channels
> of communication of the project, both could express their opinions.
It shall simply remain outside, moderators shall just take it outside
or suggest them other appropriate channels.
Thank you Taylan for thoughtfull well written article.
Jean Louis
Footnotes:
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Police
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime
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