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DATE 2005-03-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2005-03-30
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [hangout] P2P and the Supreme Court

Court Ruling May Not Hinder Music Theft
Court Ruling May Not Hinder Music Theft

By Ted Bridis
AP
03/30/05 7:54 AM PT

Richard Taranto, the lawyer for software-maker Grokster, told the
Supreme Court on yesterday that modern file-sharing tools like
Grokster's are "autonomous communications products," underscoring the
evolution of such software since the entertainment industry's landmark
victory in July 2001 shutting down the Napster online service.


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Even if entertainment companies win their Supreme Court battle for new
authority to protect movies and music on the Internet, lawyers say it
won't be easy to shut down the decentralized computer links used to
trade songs and films.

However, entertainment executives say expanded grounds for lawsuits are
needed to discourage inventors from profiting from cool gadgets of the
future that could be used for stealing.


Weeding Out Worst
"This sort of thing is out there now and you can't go -- and I may be
wrong about this -- but I don't you think you can go into people's homes
and pull [software] out, or that anybody's likely to do that," said
Theodore Olsen, the former U.S. solicitor general now working for
entertainment companies. "But it would be an important statement; an
important point here is to stop the worst of the activity, stop the
people who are making money."

Richard Taranto, the lawyer for software-maker Grokster, told the
Supreme Court yesterday that modern file-sharing tools like Grokster's
are "autonomous communications products," underscoring the evolution of
such software since the entertainment industry's landmark victory in
July 2001 shutting down the centralized Napster online service.

Taranto said the case presently facing the Supreme Court is "critically
different" from the Napster legal fight. He argued that since Grokster
isn't directly involved in the activities of its customers illegally
swapping music and movies online, it can't be sued for violating
copyrights.


Justices Divided
Justices appeared divided on important issues during courtroom
arguments. In a lively hourlong debate, the court openly worried that
new lawsuits could stunt the next iPod. Justices also wondered aloud
whether lawsuits against manufacturers might have discouraged past
inventions like copying machines, videocassette recorders and MP3 Latest
News about MP3 music players -- which consumers can use to make illegal
copies of documents, movies and songs.

Justice Antonin Scalia said a ruling for entertainment companies could
mean that if "I'm a new inventor, I'm going to get sued right away."
Scalia, 69, referred to the company as "Grokster, whatever this outfit
is called."

The chief executive for Sony (NYSE: SNE) Latest News about Sony BMG
Music Entertainment, Andrew Lack, said Grokster "doesn't pass the smell
test with a lot of the justices." Lack was in the courtroom yesterday.

"There were some concerns that they don't want to see technology or
innovation stifled," Lack said. "Grokster is wrong from a variety of
perspectives."


Defending Customers
The entertainment industry's lawyer, Donald Verrilli Jr., maintained
that, unlike Grokster's customers, most iPod buyers are honest consumers
who pay for their digital music, effectively shielding Apple Computer
(Nasdaq: AAPL) Latest News about Apple from such copyright lawsuits.

But Justice David H. Souter said even iPod users will steal music if
they believe they can. Souter questioned why the entertainment industry
wants to sue Grokster but under the same legal theory wouldn't also sue
Apple so aggressively the iPod's developer Get a free copy of Sybase(R)
ASE Express Edition for Linux. Download now! would "lose his shirt."

"I know perfectly well if I can get music on my iPod without paying
that's what I'm going to do," said Souter.

Yet the court appeared deeply troubled by Grokster's efforts to
encourage rampant Internet piracy and profit from it. Verrilli called
its software "a gigantic engine of infringement" thieves use to steal
2.6 billion songs, movies and other digital files each month.


Frustrating Thieves
Justice Anthony M. Kennedy pressed Grokster's lawyer on whether profits
from trafficking in stolen property can rightfully be used to help
finance a young technology business Meet the server enhanced for Linux®:
the new IBM eServer™ OpenPower™ system.. "That seems wrong to me,"
Kennedy said.

Regardless of the outcome, it still won't be legal to download
copyrighted materials over the Internet without permission, though tens
of millions of computer users do it each day. A ruling won't affect
thousands of copyright lawsuits filed against Internet users caught
sharing music and movies online.

Besides the lawsuits, the entertainment industry has deliberately
polluted file-sharing networks with poor-quality copies of songs and
falsely named files, among other tactics, to frustrate Internet thieves.



____________________________
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because it's either fair use or useless....
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  97. 2005-03-03 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) RE: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  98. 2005-03-03 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  99. 2005-03-03 From: "Martin, Jared" <JMartin-at-dglaw.com> RE: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  100. 2005-03-03 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  101. 2005-03-03 From: "Martin, Jared" <JMartin-at-dglaw.com> RE: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  102. 2005-03-03 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Dot mil sites.
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  109. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  110. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  111. 2005-03-02 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  112. 2005-03-02 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  113. 2005-03-02 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Starting a club at BC (report from the trenches).
  114. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Baby goes boom?
  115. 2005-03-02 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Baby goes boom..
  116. 2005-03-02 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  117. 2005-03-02 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] Baby goes boom?
  118. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  119. 2005-03-02 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  120. 2005-03-02 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] Baby goes boom?
  121. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Baby goes boom?
  122. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  123. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Baby goes boom?
  124. 2005-03-02 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  125. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Baby goes boom?
  126. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  127. 2005-03-02 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Baby goes boom?
  128. 2005-03-02 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  129. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Baby goes boom?
  130. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  131. 2005-03-02 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] Baby goes boom?
  132. 2005-03-02 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Baby goes boom?
  133. 2005-03-02 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  134. 2005-03-02 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  135. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  136. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  137. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Baby goes boom?
  138. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  139. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  140. 2005-03-02 From: "Martin, Jared" <JMartin-at-dglaw.com> RE: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  141. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  142. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  143. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  144. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Getting paid for your work...
  145. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  146. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  147. 2005-03-02 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  148. 2005-03-02 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  149. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Sir Bill
  150. 2005-03-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
  151. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] wikipedia NYLXS entry
  152. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Sir Bill
  153. 2005-03-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Q&A: Author of Dude, Did I Steal Your Job? sounds off
  154. 2005-03-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Email problem.
  155. 2005-03-30 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] P2P and the Supreme Court
  156. 2005-03-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] 2nd Annual Brewtopia World Beer Festival (NYC)
  157. 2005-03-30 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  158. 2005-03-30 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  159. 2005-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] The World is Coming to an End - No kidding
  160. 2005-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] P2P and the Supreme Court
  161. 2005-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] HP and HRD - not what you think :)
  162. 2005-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  163. 2005-03-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  164. 2005-03-30 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  165. 2005-03-30 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  166. 2005-03-30 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  167. 2005-03-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  168. 2005-03-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  169. 2005-03-29 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  170. 2005-03-29 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) RE: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  171. 2005-03-29 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  172. 2005-03-29 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  173. 2005-03-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  174. 2005-03-29 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  175. 2005-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  176. 2005-03-29 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  177. 2005-03-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Weird Useless News
  178. 2005-03-28 From: "P.Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord-hs.org> Re: [hangout] File Sharing P2P
  179. 2005-03-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] De Montfort University switches to SUSE Linux
  180. 2005-03-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Adobe 7.0 reader for Linux now available
  181. 2005-03-27 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NIH/NSF projects and the GPL
  182. 2005-03-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] File Sharing P2P
  183. 2005-03-26 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] File Sharing Wars
  184. 2005-03-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fund Raising Committee
  185. 2005-03-26 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] Fund Raising Committee
  186. 2005-03-26 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fund Raising Committee
  187. 2005-03-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Freedom-IT Results
  188. 2005-03-25 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Note: If IE is insecure - WINDOWS is INSECURE
  189. 2005-03-25 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Note: If IE is insecure - WINDOWS is INSECURE
  190. 2005-03-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Note: If IE is insecure - WINDOWS is INSECURE
  191. 2005-03-25 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Note: If IE is insecure - WINDOWS is INSECURE
  192. 2005-03-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] The Trill of the Download
  193. 2005-03-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Switch to DSL
  194. 2005-03-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Telephoney in the Times
  195. 2005-03-25 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Freedom-IT Meeting Notes
  196. 2005-03-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Mind Boggling News from the Scientific Front
  197. 2005-03-25 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Freedom-IT Meeting Notes?
  198. 2005-03-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Programmers bypass Red Hat Linux fees
  199. 2005-03-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Open Source: Free Windows Apps
  200. 2005-03-24 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Subject: [hangout] What it's like to run windows
  201. 2005-03-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets] OT: Abbott and Costello, Meet the Cybermen
  202. 2005-03-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Freedom-IT meeting
  203. 2005-03-23 From: "P.Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord-hs.org> Re: [hangout] Freedom-IT meeting
  204. 2005-03-23 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] Wednesday March 16 2005 Minutes
  205. 2005-03-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Wednesday March 16 2005 Minutes
  206. 2005-03-23 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [hangout] Wednesday March 16 2005 Minutes
  207. 2005-03-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Freedom-IT meeting

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