MESSAGE
| DATE | 2005-03-02 |
| FROM | Billy
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [hangout] We have truly lost it ....
|
Ruben Safir wrote:
>
>>A word of advice: stay away from tired language like
>>"bleeding heart liberals". It's a real turn-off.
>>
>
>
> I agree...
>
>
>>Great idea. Now ban it for murderers over 18, and we're done.
>>
>
>
> Really. They should execute them regardless of their age.
The quick and easy path. The Dark Side.
> Do you
> remember when Franklin Avenue had over 200 murders by Teens, on that ONE
> AVENUE, in ONE YEAR, in a 5 block radius. And the murderers where
> publicly tell the press that they were untouchable, all of which ended
> after, among other things, NY State passed a law to treat such these
> "Juvenile Offenders" ie: ravaging, murderous criminals, as adults.
Well, they're not untouchable anymore. The question is whether
they're killable. I say not.
>>eh? Are you worried that Johnny won't be blamed, or are you worried
>>that Johnny won't be given a lethal injection in a state revenge ritual?
>
>
> Revenges is THE CRITICAL aspect of justice. Without civic enforcement
> of justice which vents the revenge of the victim's family, society
> breaks down, as it did in Brooklyn in the early 1990's, to an ugly blood
> feud with vigilantly justice.
Society doesn't break down when people go to
prison instead of to the gallows.
> Fear overcomes the society at large, and
> hatred spills over the street. This is the exact origin of criminal
> justice predating even the law given to Moses.
Well, I can't speak to the veracity of the Moses myth,
or the appropriateness of Deuterotomy as a rulebook for my life.
Fortunately, it's irrelevent for the moment. :)
When anarchy rules, people get scared, sure.
But we're not talking about whether convicted criminals
should be allowed on the street. We're talking specifically
about whether we lock them in a small room and solemnly observe
them as we release a gas to slowly dissolve their lung tissue.
> The whole process is designed from the ground up as a ritualization of
> apprehending, processing, and expression of collective anger in lew of
that's "lieu", btw
> personal execution of actions by individuals in expressing their anger
> directly through violence.
> The first stage in this process is the
> contract between society and victims that the state will bare the burden
> of justly executing the revenge of the victim in prosecuting punishment
> which is satisfactory in the general sense to the emotional punishment
> meted out to the victim and their loved ones.
Social contracts are mythical constructs. You aren't asked to review
and sign one when you're born or when you turn 18. You're born
and you get whatever society you're born into. But you don't have a
choice, so it's not a contract. You can't refuse it if you don't like it.
ANYWAY,
> Criminal justice has nothing to do with rehabilitating the criminal, the
> criminals potential, the criminals remorse, etc etc. Criminal justice
> is about healing the wounds of the victims in order to prevent an
> inevitable break down of social order to blood feuds.
Well, that's pretty basically wrong. Bad things happen.
You can't turn back time, and sometimes you just can't
fix the situation. The question is whether you make it worse.
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