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DATE 2004-09-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2004-09-22
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [hangout] Spamassassin Weak Points


The problems with SpamAssassin are rather large and become pretty clear
once your using it for substantial mail. Many of the problems have
already been mentioned here but I'll review them on by one.

The first problem is documentation and setup. SpamAssasins
documentation is not clear, and a detail write up of it's architecture
is not clearly written up. In fact, it seems to have been built with a
clear road map to it's design. SpamAssassin.pm itself seems to be
mostly, as Ron put it, a REGEX monster with a lot of rules. Regexes in
perl are fairly efficient, but SpamAssasin itself is not. It is very
inefficient. In addition to Spamassin, you have spamc, salearb and
spamd

spamc doesn't (surprise) even have a perldoc page. spamassassin itself
does, as does sa-learn. Installation documentation is very complex do
to the need for multiple outside programs which would best be built as
dependencies, or better, built into spamassasin itself. Among these
include razor razor2, dccproc, pyzor etc. If installing by hand, these
collaboration modules can be a nightmare. Pyzor, for example required a
complete re-installation of the Python environment. This kind of
minefield reminds be significantly of the problems trying to install
gnome by hand. The codependency problem is hell.

Now lets look at some of the internals of the documentation. For
example, you have this little beauty from perldoc spamassassin:

-k, --revoke
Revoke this message. This will revoke the mail mesĀ­
sage read from STDIN from various spam-blocker
databases. Currently, these are Vipul's Razor (
http://razor.sourceforge.net/ ).


What? Huh? Revoke a message from stdin of WHAT? What does this mean.
uh oh, I better run off now to a mail list or IRC channel and beg for an
explaination.

Or how about this one?:

Quite often, if you've been on the internet for a while,
you'll have accumulated a few old email accounts that
nowadays get nothing but spam.

SpamAssassin lets you set them up as aliases, as follows:

spamtrap1: ""| /path/to/spamassassin -r -w spamtrap1""


What the heck is spamtrap1 in this example? What does this do exactly?
It's bewildering.

Now, if you spend a lot of time struggling with all the documentation
and if you have now made spamassassin a full time hobby, and you've
integrated yourself into the spamassassin cadre and union of
spamassassin A++ professionals, all this bad design begins to become
clear to you, maybe.

Now, in its design, its working on the wrong end and it is too passive.
Mail comes into your mail system and is then processed by your MTA and
sent to, not spamassassin, but to procmail. Procmail itself is one of
those mysterious poorly documents, and often doesn't do what it was
supposed to, applications (which unfortunately we all love). It then
filters all the mail, headers and bodies, through multiple tests.
Instead of cutting the mailing IP address off at the HELO interface,
when it sees multiple spams coming through from the same IP address, it
just keeps processing them. No if you have something like a spendmail
milter on the RBL, your can possibly short circuit the spam source. But
spamassassin only filters and tags, and depends on user intervention to
learn (with sa-learn). This is all a pitfall and the spammers, who
are not as stupid and Sunny would like to think they are, have worked on
defeating this system at its weak points.

For example, they itinerate messages with binaries just above the
common maximum sizes folks commonly use for spamc, and thereby just blow
past the whole thing. If you raise the max size, it caused spamd to
choke on the mail, and your log will fill with notices and spamd is not
responding to spamc. Spamassassin doesn't seem have enough common sense
not to attempt to mulch on binary data (which is a problem suffered by
embperl as well for what it is worth) despite really having all the
information it needs to do this in the headers. Spamassassin doesn't
have a graceful way of timing out. In fact, since the mail is ALREADY
accepted by the MTA, it has no way of say, yo!! This is too hard right
now, send again later!, because the SMTP is already closed. It also
doesn't gracefully just say, oh - this is too big right now, right it
out to a temp file and process later when I'm not business. No, it's
just a dumb filter with some backend communication to Rhyzor et al.

When users create bayesian, databases, the process can really bogg
down. My own bayesian database just dragged the CPU to a halt. This is
not a good thing (TM by Vaughn Scott). Multiply this by 40 ppower
users, like we have at NYLXS, and you can have a huge problem. The
documentation recommends not turning on the local user .spamassasin.conf
files. Great, and this is evidently set up as default behavior.


So lets say we want to fix some of these problems. Lets integrate
spamassassin into the MTA! Let's look at hwo we can do that:

http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/IntegratedInMta

tells me for sendmail to use procmail - UGG

OK but there is a link for a high speed vilter! Wonderful. Click on
that link:

http://www.msys.ch/products/software/unix/sendmail/smtp-vilter/


Bonk!!!! Anyone know how to read German?

OK how about roaring Penguin. Well, truthfully, this is where I stopped
until this week. This week we were mail bombed by spam coming out of
nearly every corner of the planet. A little over 400,000 entries in the
from and mail log in about 6 hours. I dropped the procmail spamc entry
to about 200,000

:0fw
* < 20000
|spamc -f

put a maximum of 5 children. A lot of spam gets through, but the system
doesn't swap out and freeze anymore and about 80% of the spam is caught
and the larger spams designed to kill SA are failing to do that now.
God Bless America (and China too).

I upgraded SA and I've got to roll up my sleeves and look further at
solutions which integrate into the sendmail milters. But overall, there
are serious design flaws in SA which could be addressed.

It should be a wrapper for the MTA, add access denial entries and HUP
the MTA when under stress so that it takes the new entries. It needs to
gracefully time out. It needs to renice itself down (or up depending on
how you look at it). It needs to generally play nice.

Meanwhile, I'm going to run out and buy more ram this week for the mail
server, just for SA.

Ruben



--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and
articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown
Brooklyn....



____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc

  1. 2004-09-30 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] New York Linux Scene (fwd)
  2. 2004-09-30 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] RE: [fairuse-talk] MS FAT Patent Overruled by USPTO
  3. 2004-09-30 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Is there a meeting tonight?
  4. 2004-09-30 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] FW: MANDATORY MILITARY DRAFT 2005
  5. 2004-09-30 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] FW: MANDATORY MILITARY DRAFT 2005
  6. 2004-09-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] More Desktop News
  7. 2004-09-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jounal Committee Meeting Tomorrow
  8. 2004-09-28 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Board Meeting Report
  9. 2004-09-28 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Munich Update
  10. 2004-09-28 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Desktop Stratergies
  11. 2004-09-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Board Meeting Report
  12. 2004-09-28 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: MANDATORY MILITARY DRAFT 2005
  13. 2004-09-28 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: Only two weeks to go --- Register Now] (fwd)
  14. 2004-09-27 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] (fwd) [SECURITY] [DSA 554-1] New sendmail packages fix
  15. 2004-09-27 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] (fwd) [SECURITY] [DSA 554-1] New sendmail packages fix potential open relay
  16. 2004-09-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Paging Rob M
  17. 2004-09-27 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] High-tech job market lost 400,000 jobs
  18. 2004-09-27 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Paging Rob M
  19. 2004-09-27 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Paging Rob M
  20. 2004-09-27 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] (fwd) [SECURITY] [DSA 554-1] New sendmail packages fix potential open relay
  21. 2004-09-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] SpamAssassin dccproc
  22. 2004-09-26 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: [Politics] FW: Interesting approach to stress]
  23. 2004-09-26 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Computer crash forces cancled flights.
  24. 2004-09-26 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekly NYLXS Announcments
  25. 2004-09-25 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] UID weirdness
  26. 2004-09-25 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] UID weirdness
  27. 2004-09-25 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [DMCA_Discuss] NY Judge Repudiates Live Music Bootleg Law (fwd)
  28. 2004-09-25 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: [Politics] FW: Interesting approach to stress] (fwd)
  29. 2004-09-25 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] UID weirdness
  30. 2004-09-24 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  31. 2004-09-24 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  32. 2004-09-24 From: "P.Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord-hs.org> RE: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  33. 2004-09-24 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] MS sues spammers webhosters.
  34. 2004-09-24 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] MS sues spammers webhosters.
  35. 2004-09-24 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [DMCA_Discuss] First Amendment Defense Fails in DVD Copy Control
  36. 2004-09-23 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] SpamAssassin sports new open-source license
  37. 2004-09-23 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  38. 2004-09-23 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  39. 2004-09-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] SpamAssassin sports new open-source license
  40. 2004-09-22 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  41. 2004-09-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell recruit MS talent for GNU/Linux marketing
  42. 2004-09-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Sun Open Source stratergy of the day
  43. 2004-09-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  44. 2004-09-22 From: "P.Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord-hs.org> Re: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  45. 2004-09-22 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Board Meeting Report
  46. 2004-09-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Board Meeting Report
  47. 2004-09-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Spamassassin Weak Points
  48. 2004-09-22 From: "P.Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord-hs.org> RE: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  49. 2004-09-22 From: "P.Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord-hs.org> RE: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  50. 2004-09-22 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Board Meeting Report
  51. 2004-09-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Board Meeting Report
  52. 2004-09-22 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Board Meeting Report
  53. 2004-09-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Board Meeting Report
  54. 2004-09-22 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Board Meeting Report
  55. 2004-09-22 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Board Meeting Report
  56. 2004-09-22 akbar <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Board Meeting Report
  57. 2004-09-22 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  58. 2004-09-22 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Microsoft software implicated in air traffic shutdo
  59. 2004-09-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Microsoft software implicated in air traffic shutdown
  60. 2004-09-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Free 96-page report details benefits of Open Source software
  61. 2004-09-22 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Nitix Autonomic Linux-based Server Operating System
  62. 2004-09-22 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Windows on Warships
  63. 2004-09-22 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Paging David Sugar
  64. 2004-09-22 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Spamassasin really sucks
  65. 2004-09-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Paging David Sugar
  66. 2004-09-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  67. 2004-09-21 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: C3 EXPO Launched - New Computing Event for Corporate & Channel
  68. 2004-09-21 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Sun denies report it is 'selling out' OpenOffice
  69. 2004-09-21 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] OpenOffice: A legal Trojan horse--but for whom?
  70. 2004-09-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Board Meeting Report
  71. 2004-09-21 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] What is wrong with this picture?
  72. 2004-09-21 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  73. 2004-09-21 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  74. 2004-09-21 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSE Ent9 Server & YOU
  75. 2004-09-21 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Meeting
  76. 2004-09-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] DMCA stuff
  77. 2004-09-20 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Hang on to your seatbelts.
  78. 2004-09-20 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Hang on to your seatbelts.
  79. 2004-09-20 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] L'Shana Tova Tikasayvu (Happy Jewish New Year!)
  80. 2004-09-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] L'Shana Tova Tikasayvu (Happy Jewish New Year!)
  81. 2004-09-20 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] L'Shana Tova Tikasayvu (Happy Jewish New Year!)
  82. 2004-09-20 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] L'Shana Tova Tikasayvu (Happy Jewish New Year!)
  83. 2004-09-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] L'Shana Tova Tikasayvu (Happy Jewish New Year!)
  84. 2004-09-20 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] L'Shana Tova Tikasayvu (Happy Jewish New Year!)
  85. 2004-09-20 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] VectorLinux 4.3 Has Arrived!
  86. 2004-09-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] L'Shana Tova Tikasayvu (Happy Jewish New Year!)
  87. 2004-09-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] L'Shana Tova Tikasayvu (Happy Jewish New Year!)
  88. 2004-09-20 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] L'Shana Tova Tikasayvu (Happy Jewish New Year!)
  89. 2004-09-20 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] SuSE Tech Kit
  90. 2004-09-20 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] meeting
  91. 2004-09-20 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] meeting
  92. 2004-09-20 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Hang on to your seatbelts.
  93. 2004-09-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Big Oppurtunity for the Ready Free Software Enterprise Desktop
  94. 2004-09-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Hang on to your seatbelts.
  95. 2004-09-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Big Oppurtunity for the Ready Free Software Enterprise Desktop
  96. 2004-09-19 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Sun reports Wall Street sick of Free Software :(
  97. 2004-09-19 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Sun reports Wall Street sick of Free Software :(
  98. 2004-09-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Sun reports Wall Street sick of Free Software :(
  99. 2004-09-19 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] To be young and lost
  100. 2004-09-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] To be young and lost
  101. 2004-09-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Sun reports Wall Street sick of Free Software :(
  102. 2004-09-18 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Sun reports Wall Street sick of Free Software :(
  103. 2004-09-18 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Sun reports Wall Street sick of Free Software :(
  104. 2004-09-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Sun reports Wall Street sick of Free Software :(
  105. 2004-09-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] MYSQL News
  106. 2004-09-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Economist mag
  107. 2004-09-17 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] SuSE Tech Kit
  108. 2004-09-17 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Google & Non-Profit Orgs
  109. 2004-09-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs
  110. 2004-09-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] More jobs
  111. 2004-09-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs
  112. 2004-09-16 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Meeting
  113. 2004-09-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] meeting
  114. 2004-09-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] meeting
  115. 2004-09-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] meeting
  116. 2004-09-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Novell sees a 'both-source' future
  117. 2004-09-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] meeting
  118. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Novell sees a 'both-source' future
  119. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Novell sees a 'both-source' future
  120. 2004-09-13 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Novell sees a 'both-source' future
  121. 2004-09-13 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell
  122. 2004-09-13 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Novell sees a 'both-source' future
  123. 2004-09-13 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Novell sees a 'both-source' future
  124. 2004-09-13 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell sees a 'both-source' future
  125. 2004-09-13 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] "Linux Backers to Support Standard"
  126. 2004-09-13 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Malware Writers Using Open-Source Tactics
  127. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Web Site Redesign
  128. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Web Site Redesign
  129. 2004-09-13 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Re:
  130. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Brooklyn Tech Servers
  131. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Educational Institution in Need
  132. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Please Handle this first contact... Thanx
  133. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] I am a man, and you are a woman
  134. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jobs4.2
  135. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jobs4.0
  136. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs3.8
  137. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jobs3.5
  138. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jobs3.3
  139. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jobs3.1
  140. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jobs2.5
  141. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Jobs2
  142. 2004-09-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs
  143. 2004-09-12 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Novell/SuSE offer
  144. 2004-09-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] gnomemeeting
  145. 2004-09-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Astoria Queens LUG building
  146. 2004-09-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Educational Institution in Need
  147. 2004-09-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Volunteer needed urgently in Brooklyn
  148. 2004-09-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: two dimensional arrays passed to functions
  149. 2004-09-10 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: two dimensional arrays passed to functions
  150. 2004-09-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] INDUCE: Copyright Office Recommended Statutory Language
  151. 2004-09-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Business in New York
  152. 2004-09-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: two dimensional arrays passed to functions
  153. 2004-09-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [Paranoia-dev] valgrind
  154. 2004-09-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Asian Spam - Die Now
  155. 2004-09-09 From: "Ruben" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: two dimensional arrays passed to functions
  156. 2004-09-09 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [DMCA_Discuss] Distributed Search Company Sues RIAA over Patent
  157. 2004-09-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: two dimensional arrays passed to functions
  158. 2004-09-09 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: two dimensional arrays passed to functions
  159. 2004-09-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: two dimensional arrays passed to functions
  160. 2004-09-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] I have no functional gas according to dosemu
  161. 2004-09-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] binutils
  162. 2004-09-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Subject: [hangout] DOSEMU for PPC
  163. 2004-09-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Novell/SuSE offer
  164. 2004-09-09 From: "Ruben" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: two dimensional arrays passed to functions
  165. 2004-09-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Novell/SuSE offer
  166. 2004-09-09 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] C programming: 2d Arrays
  167. 2004-09-08 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] I have no functional gas according to dosemu
  168. 2004-09-08 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Binutils disregard previous email
  169. 2004-09-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] I have no functional gas according to dosemu
  170. 2004-09-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Binutils disregard previous email
  171. 2004-09-08 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] binutils
  172. 2004-09-08 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] BSCP
  173. 2004-09-08 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Binutil
  174. 2004-09-08 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Good Morning
  175. 2004-09-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Binutil
  176. 2004-09-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Binutil
  177. 2004-09-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [reply-c9f4-1808-2f6b114cd7-at-nl.internet.com: Your Linux Today Security Letter for September 8, 2004]
  178. 2004-09-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Sybase releases free Express database for Linux
  179. 2004-09-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Binutil
  180. 2004-09-08 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Binutil
  181. 2004-09-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Binutil
  182. 2004-09-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Binutil
  183. 2004-09-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Good Morning
  184. 2004-09-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Whippersnapper whistle-blowers beware
  185. 2004-09-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Whistle-blowers form a breed apart
  186. 2004-09-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Windows on Warships
  187. 2004-09-07 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Windows on Warships
  188. 2004-09-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Windows on Warships
  189. 2004-09-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Windows on Warships
  190. 2004-09-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Windows on Warships
  191. 2004-09-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Printing from Suse 9.1
  192. 2004-09-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Printing from Suse 9.1
  193. 2004-09-07 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Printing from Suse 9.1
  194. 2004-09-07 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Printing from Suse 9.1
  195. 2004-09-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Printing from Suse 9.1
  196. 2004-09-07 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Windows on Warships
  197. 2004-09-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Segfault in mysql_real_escape_string
  198. 2004-09-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Registers
  199. 2004-09-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Registers
  200. 2004-09-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] strmov
  201. 2004-09-05 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Registers
  202. 2004-09-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  203. 2004-09-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Outing.
  204. 2004-09-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Outing.
  205. 2004-09-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  206. 2004-09-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  207. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  208. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  209. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Help needed with MySQL C API-based client (segfault)
  210. 2004-09-04 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] What is the Linux equivalent to debug.
  211. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Paging Serge
  212. 2004-09-04 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  213. 2004-09-04 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Outing.
  214. 2004-09-04 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Outing.
  215. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  216. 2004-09-04 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Outing.
  217. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] MYSQL and C
  218. 2004-09-04 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Enterprise Server Suse
  219. 2004-09-04 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  220. 2004-09-04 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  221. 2004-09-04 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  222. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  223. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  224. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  225. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  226. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  227. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  228. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  229. 2004-09-04 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  230. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  231. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  232. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  233. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  234. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  235. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  236. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  237. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  238. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  239. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  240. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  241. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  242. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  243. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  244. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  245. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  246. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  247. 2004-09-04 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  248. 2004-09-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  249. 2004-09-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  250. 2004-09-03 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  251. 2004-09-03 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  252. 2004-09-03 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  253. 2004-09-03 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  254. 2004-09-03 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  255. 2004-09-03 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  256. 2004-09-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Quite unbeleivable
  257. 2004-09-03 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Quite unbeleivable
  258. 2004-09-02 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Adjusting font sizes and video alignment in Suse 9.1
  259. 2004-09-02 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  260. 2004-09-02 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!? Was RE: [NMLUG] Re:Linux Advocacy FAQ is NOT Linux Advocacy Maxim (RobertDelahunt) (Daniel Lark)
  261. 2004-09-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!?
  262. 2004-09-02 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  263. 2004-09-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Kerberos Holes Could Bring Serious Exploits (3 Articles Worth Rea
  264. 2004-09-02 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  265. 2004-09-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  266. 2004-09-01 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  267. 2004-09-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekend Activities
  268. 2004-09-01 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [NMLUG] Re: Linux Advocacy FAQ is NOT Linux Advocacy Maxim
  269. 2004-09-01 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] freedom-it
  270. 2004-09-01 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  271. 2004-09-01 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  272. 2004-09-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Xybernaut adds Linux as an OS option
  273. 2004-09-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Assembly
  274. 2004-09-01 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  275. 2004-09-01 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  276. 2004-09-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Oklahoma non-profit finds open source OK
  277. 2004-09-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  278. 2004-09-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Assembly
  279. 2004-09-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Assembly

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