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DATE 2004-06-01

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2004-06-25
FROM From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS"
SUBJECT Subject: [hangout] Tony Wiener - Eat your heart out - GNU/Linux in government

Currents: Linux in Government: Winning in the Big Enterprise Space
Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 by Tom Adelstein Printer Friendly Page Send
this Article to a Friend

Linux in Business The US Courts' server migration project will put core
applications and services on ProLiant servers running Linux.

In December 2003, a sound byte in the media mentioned an enterprise alliance,
not unlike hundreds we have read in the past. This time, six Linux
distributors--Red Hat, SuSE, Miracle Linux, Turbolinux, Red Flag and
Conectiva--joined with BakBone Software to form what they called the Linux
Advantage. The aim of the alliance was to provide another enterprise move to
bolster Linux.

The sound byte had all the trimmings of so many others we have heard before.
Peter Eck of BakBone provided the required quote, saying that their product
would "aggressively accelerate their Linux adoption plans". Peter Galli of
eWeek quoted a senior software engineer and an executive of SuSE. It all
looked like another reengineered press release made to sound like a big story.
This story would have made Linux stocks jump a few years ago, but in December
2003, it had all the pizazz of a yawn.

So what happened? BakBone winds up grabbing a huge contract win: supporting
the new server integration project for the United States Courts. Turns out
that the Judiciary started migrating its core applications to HP ProLiant
servers running Linux. The internal staff of the courts went looking for a
solution to meet its needs and found BakBone, and that recommendation led to
the contract award.
The Federal Courts

As recently as August 2003, the Administrative Office of the US Court (AOUSC)
was said to provide services to approximately 30,000 federal judges and court
staff at approximately 800 sites. The AOUSC, the administrative arm of the
federal judicial branch, provides services to the federal courts and judges in
the areas of administration, program management and policy development.

At least one of AOUSC's vendors, American Management Systems (AMS), provides
the district court financial management solution, Momentum. Momentum runs on
Red Hat Enterprise Linux. AMS is reported to have its solution in 94 district
courts. AMS said it is the AOUSC's largest financial services vendor.

AOUSC also awarded a $9 million contract in November 2003 to migrate the
federal courts national information technology infrastructure to the
Linux/Intel platform. That's a fair commitment to a low-cost solution, under
the cloud of alleged copyright infringement with not much in the way of
indemnification.

AOUSC began moving its case management, finance and accounting, probation,
pretrial services and case-tracking management systems to Linux from Solaris,
which AOUSC uses on Intel's x86 server architecture. The move from Solaris to
Red Hat Enterprise Linux Advance Server seems familiar to other initiatives in
global enterprises.

The migration from Solaris/x86 to Linux/x86 will be managed by in-house staff,
according a story by Michael S. Mimoso. In his story, Mimoso quoted Karen
Redmond as saying "contractual assistance will be used as needed to augment
in-house staff in providing additional technical and logistical support for
the nationwide transition".
Linux in the Government

Stories of large Linux deployments grab the attention of enthusiasts and
people looking for opinion leadership in industry. Few readers gravitate to
stories about firms who do the heavy lifting in the enterprise space. Not too
long ago, we saw a lot of criticism that Linux was not ready for primetime
because it lacked commercial support and maintenance. Then, we saw criticism
because Linux lacked commercial applications. As commercial applications
arrived, Linux was said to lack enterprise tools. You get the picture.

So what did the US Courts need in order to feel comfortable with Linux as an
enterprise solution? They decided they needed an enterprise backup and
restoration system that can get everything up and running quickly. AOUSC's
in-house staff found one they liked and recommended it to the prime
contractor--Titan Corporation, a $2 billion national security specialist for
the US Government.

The staff at AOUSC liked BakBone's NetVault system, which runs on Linux and
supports heterogeneous environments. As I dug a little deeper, I found out
that the company has about a 20% share of the Linux backup and restoration
market, according to IDC. Looking further, BakBone provides governments with
data protection and the rapid recovery needed in mission critical situations,
such as disasters.
Courts Changing Government Technology Trends

As I stated last week, "the government wants industry to bring solutions to
government problems rather than have government agencies develop their own
software. That makes it difficult for procurement officials to find their best
value proposition." In the same sense, the government rarely goes looking for
solutions.

The AOUSC has established a trend by migrating to Linux. Instead of waiting
for a proprietary-based industry to bring more of the same, the Courts took
the road of personal responsibility and made the right choice. Perhaps other
agencies and branches of government will consider taking the Courts' approach
in their next endeavor.

Andy Stein, the CIO of Newport News, Virginia, and project owner of
localgovernments.core.gov wrote a paper last year that sums up the nature of
government technology in today's cities:

*

New hardware technology and software systems hold the promise of
significantly improving service delivery by local governments. Rarely does a
community have the financial resources to exploit that potential fully. Most
cities have become a patchwork of technology with legacy hardware and special
systems existing alongside networks of distributed enterprise software.
*

Even networks deployed in the last ten years exist as amalgamations of
older software, such as Novell 3-4.0, Windows 95, Windows 98 and Window NT
Server. Manufacturers no longer support these older software systems and the
hardware on which they run fail often.
*

New systems offered by independent software vendors (ISV's) carry new
licensing schemes that increase the total cost of ownership of computing.
Cities face spending more money upgrading to newer systems, or risk failure of
older systems. With the evolution of technology this problem continues to grow.

Government units from municipalities to Cabinet-level agencies may recognize
the state of their infrastructure and take the Court's lead before signing
more contracts for proprietary solutions. In fact, Congress simply might
suggest that government procurement in every nook and cranny simply stop. We
should stop buying anything unless it truly provides the best value proposition.
What About the Vendor

People wanting a warm and fuzzy story about an open-source company giving away
its core products will not find it here. BakBone follows a business model that
someone might call second-generation Linux. BakBone belongs to the Open Source
Development Lab, which uses and enables Linux. BakBone's role at OSDL allows
Linux to focus on enterprise data protection technologies.

The company's key product, NetVault Enterprise Edition, provides diverse
platform backup and restore solutions. If I have one of those amalgamations of
older software systems, NetVault gives me a way to back up everything. It also
provides ways to bring systems and database applications back on-line without
having to reconstitute the system. Its real-time capabilities of restoration
impressed me, especially after having coped with reviving mail solutions in
the aftermath of 9/11.

Governments in particular can benefit by using a recovery system designed for
heterogeneous UNIX, Windows NT/2000, Linux and Netware enterprise
environments. NetVault allows administrators to add and configure new servers,
devices and clients and control them from a central location with less effort
than what they are accustomed.

I also discovered that BakBone has a sweet spot in the small- to medium-sized
business market. So, although the company can enable large Linux enterprises,
they also can work for my local media client who has three times the number of
servers and workstations than he does employees.

BakBone is helping to make Linux a more accepted solution. Implementations
such as the one the Federal Courts have made make people think twice before
they dismiss Linux for whatever reason. As an analyst, I liked what I saw of
BakBone.
Some Things to Take Home

BakBone's success should remind us that we cannot overlook the possibility
that even the smallest sound byte may have significance. I recognize that
sometimes information overload can lead to a state of mind in which we become
numb to everything. But, can we afford to take for granted things that could
transform the quality of our lives at any point in time?

Sometimes our logic blinds us to possibilities. I wonder who would have
expected to see such companies as Hewlett Packard, IBM, Dell, Oracle, Titan or
BakBone joint-venturing with a company such as Red Hat two or three years ago?

Finally, consider that while an allegation of copyright infringement exists in
the Federal Courts today, those same courts have decided to migrate to the
alleged perpetrator in that case. It's something to consider. As Søren
Kierkegaard once said, "Irony is a disciplinarian feared only by those who do
not know it, but cherished by those who do."

Tom Adelstein works as a Linux consultant and specializes in identifying
opportunities for open-source software in organizations. He's the coauthor of
the upcoming book, Exploring Linux with the Java Desktop System, published by
O'Reilly and Associates. He also works with the Open Source Software
Institute. He recently published two articles in Forbes about open-source
software and JBOSS. He also has written numerous articles as a guest editor
for a variety of publications.

--
NYLXS - New Yorks Free Software Scene

____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc

  1. 2004-06-15 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] WinPenguins
  2. 2004-06-15 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] GNU/Linux 2.2 CD
  3. 2004-06-15 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] NY Times Article on DRM - Follow Up
  4. 2004-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NY Times Article on DRM - Follow Up
  5. 2004-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NY Times Article on DRM
  6. 2004-06-15 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] YellowDog 3.0.1
  7. 2004-06-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] YellowDog 3.0.1
  8. 2004-06-15 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YellowDog 3.0.1
  9. 2004-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] YellowDog 3.0.1
  10. 2004-06-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Use of Linux Grows in Public Sector
  11. 2004-06-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Evan's Summer 2004 NYLXS Calendar (June, July, August 2004)
  12. 2004-06-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] gnu linux1 material
  13. 2004-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton]
  14. 2004-06-15 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] latest version of GNU/Linux 1
  15. 2004-06-15 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton]
  16. 2004-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Evan's NYLXS Calendar - June, July, August 28, 2004
  17. 2004-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Software freedom Day
  18. 2004-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton]
  19. 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton]
  20. 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] latest version of GNU/Linux 1
  21. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gnu linux1 material
  22. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton]
  23. 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] gnu linux1 material
  24. 2004-06-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SFD papers
  25. 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] SFD papers
  26. 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Meeting Minutes from NYLXS Meeting Thurs, June 10, 2004
  27. 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Evan's NYLXS Calendar - June, July, August 28, 2004
  28. 2004-06-14 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom Day
  29. 2004-06-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Note to Peter Seigel
  30. 2004-06-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom Day
  31. 2004-06-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Software freedom Day
  32. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Note to Peter Seigel
  33. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Evan's NYLXS Calendar - June, July, August 28, 2004
  34. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekly NYLXS Announcments
  35. 2004-06-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom Day
  36. 2004-06-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Software freedom Day
  37. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Meeting Minutes from NYLXS Meeting Thurs, June 10,
  38. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Meeting Minutes from NYLXS Meeting Thurs, June 10,
  39. 2004-06-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS 2004 Membership Dues
  40. 2004-06-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Meeting Minutes from NYLXS Meeting Thurs, June 10, 2004
  41. 2004-06-13 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] console based calendar
  42. 2004-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Superman Videos
  43. 2004-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Superman Videos
  44. 2004-06-12 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: The proper MSFT security procedure?] (fwd)
  45. 2004-06-12 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: The proper MSFT security procedure?] (fwd)
  46. 2004-06-12 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: The proper MSFT security procedure?] (fwd)
  47. 2004-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  48. 2004-06-12 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  49. 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Your Linux Today Security Letter for June 11, 2004 [reply-ad83-1808-2f6b114cd7-at-nl.internet.com]
  50. 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: GNU Common C++ 1.2.0 and the patented todo tatoo... [dyfet-at-ostel.com]
  51. 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: I'll be at the meeting tonight
  52. 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  53. 2004-06-11 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  54. 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  55. 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  56. 2004-06-11 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  57. 2004-06-11 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  58. 2004-06-11 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> Subject: [hangout] FYI: SoftwareFreedomDay.org
  59. 2004-06-11 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS website.
  60. 2004-06-11 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS website.
  61. 2004-06-11 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  62. 2004-06-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  63. 2004-06-10 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  64. 2004-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] LAMP - CGI - Mod_Perl Web Developer (onsite), United States, NY, New York City [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  65. 2004-06-10 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] God Bless America.
  66. 2004-06-10 Derrick Lewis <lewisdj-at-bc.edu> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  67. 2004-06-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: More from "News"day
  68. 2004-06-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [nylxs-announce] GNU/Linux Scene Calender for Today
  69. 2004-06-10 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs
  70. 2004-06-09 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10,
  71. 2004-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004 7
  72. 2004-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] more from alt.sports.basebase.ny-mets: Michael Moore
  73. 2004-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004 7:00pm - 11:00p m
  74. 2004-06-09 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Chaverware
  75. 2004-06-09 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Chaverware
  76. 2004-06-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] P2P loses in Europe
  77. 2004-06-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Chaverware
  78. 2004-06-09 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Chaverware
  79. 2004-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Chaverware
  80. 2004-06-09 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Chaverware
  81. 2004-06-09 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Chaverware
  82. 2004-06-09 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] P2P loses in Europe
  83. 2004-06-08 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Old New I just want to get in the archives
  84. 2004-06-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [bruce.lai-at-council.nyc.ny.us: REVISED: Upcoming hearings/events from the Committee on Technology in Government, New York City Council as of JUNE 8, 2004.]
  85. 2004-06-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] The Source : OpenBSD revisited
  86. 2004-06-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] The Source : OpenBSD revisited
  87. 2004-06-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] The gift economy and free software
  88. 2004-06-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] 'Open-source' Solaris draws lukewarm response
  89. 2004-06-07 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming
  90. 2004-06-07 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming
  91. 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Required Perl Expert (onsite), United States, Delaware, Newark [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  92. 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] More Cool People Needed (onsite), United States, MA, Waltham [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  93. 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming
  94. 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming
  95. 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming
  96. 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs Jobs
  97. 2004-06-07 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004 7
  98. 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004 7:00pm - 11:00p m
  99. 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] FW: Free Expo Pass for LinuxWorld, the industry's leading event
  100. 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  101. 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  102. 2004-06-07 Walt Costanza <wjc-at-retsambew.com> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards?
  103. 2004-06-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards?
  104. 2004-06-07 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] reposting
  105. 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] LAMP / CGI / mod_perl expert (telecommute), United States, n/a, n/a [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  106. 2004-06-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Tech Nite
  107. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] How NOT to lodge a compalint
  108. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Upcoming hearings/events from the Committee on Technology in Government, New York City Council as of JUNE 6, 2004. [bruce.lai-at-council.nyc.ny.us]
  109. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] And other interesting places ....
  110. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Good place to send a spare $20
  111. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Old New I just want to get in the archives
  112. 2004-06-06 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Old New I just want to get in the archives
  113. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Old New I just want to get in the archives
  114. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [nylxs-announce] Weekly NYLXS Announcments [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com]
  115. 2004-06-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Microsoft Patents
  116. 2004-06-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Microsoft Patents
  117. 2004-06-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Sun releasing code
  118. 2004-06-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards?
  119. 2004-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  120. 2004-06-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards?
  121. 2004-06-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards?
  122. 2004-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  123. 2004-06-04 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  124. 2004-06-04 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] SUSe 8.2 with D-Link AirXpert DWL-AG650
  125. 2004-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  126. 2004-06-04 Peter Siegel <psiegel-at-copper.net> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  127. 2004-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  128. 2004-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  129. 2004-06-04 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  130. 2004-06-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] SUSe 8.2 with D-Link AirXpert DWL-AG650
  131. 2004-06-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Perl/Mason Web software developer (onsite), United States, NY, Park Slope, Brooklyn]
  132. 2004-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards?
  133. 2004-06-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  134. 2004-06-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: FW: [hangout] New Event for NYLXS Membership
  135. 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  136. 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: FW: [hangout] New Event for NYLXS Membership
  137. 2004-06-03 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: FW: [hangout] New Event for NYLXS Membership
  138. 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> FW: [hangout] New Event for NYLXS Membership
  139. 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  140. 2004-06-03 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  141. 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  142. 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] FW: Linux Grows in Popularity
  143. 2004-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Linux Journal Weekly Newsletter -- June 2 [html-at-ssc.com]
  144. 2004-06-02 Walt Costanza <wjc-at-retsambew.com> Re: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  145. 2004-06-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Sun's Java Desktop System 2 is No Improvement
  146. 2004-06-02 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Weird Software License
  147. 2004-06-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  148. 2004-06-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Weird Software License
  149. 2004-06-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  150. 2004-06-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  151. 2004-06-30 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  152. 2004-06-30 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> RE: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  153. 2004-06-30 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  154. 2004-06-30 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  155. 2004-06-30 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  156. 2004-06-30 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  157. 2004-06-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  158. 2004-06-30 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  159. 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  160. 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  161. 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  162. 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  163. 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  164. 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  165. 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  166. 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  167. 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  168. 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  169. 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  170. 2004-06-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Linux Software Engineer (onsite), United States, NJ, Somerset [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  171. 2004-06-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  172. 2004-06-29 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  173. 2004-06-29 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  174. 2004-06-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  175. 2004-06-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  176. 2004-06-29 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] German Government Desktop Unveiled
  177. 2004-06-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] German Government Desktop Unveiled
  178. 2004-06-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] debian-installer
  179. 2004-06-29 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] debian-installer
  180. 2004-06-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Bar Mitzva times and places
  181. 2004-06-29 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] debian-installer
  182. 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux job for Lucas Films -
  183. 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] HP Installer Kit for Linux
  184. 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Movie
  185. 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004
  186. 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004
  187. 2004-06-28 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Movie
  188. 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] HP Installer Kit for Linux
  189. 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] HP rolls out new desktop, workstations
  190. 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] So yah want to see a ballgame from MLB?
  191. 2004-06-28 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] So yah want to see a ballgame from MLB?
  192. 2004-06-28 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 2 D
  193. 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 2 D ays
  194. 2004-06-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 2 Days and counti ng
  195. 2004-06-28 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] (fwd) [alois-at-astro.ch: Re: Redhat support experience]
  196. 2004-06-28 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Bar Mitzvah
  197. 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 2 Days and counti ng
  198. 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] MS - Security built inside:
  199. 2004-06-27 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Grep
  200. 2004-06-27 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] So yah want to see a ballgame from MLB?
  201. 2004-06-27 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Bar Mitzva
  202. 2004-06-27 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] next weekend
  203. 2004-06-27 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Bar Mitzva
  204. 2004-06-26 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mac OS X security myth exposed
  205. 2004-06-26 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] JPEG Legal Battle
  206. 2004-06-25 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Test
  207. 2004-06-25 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Test
  208. 2004-06-25 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: RHCA
  209. 2004-06-25 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] toshiba drive
  210. 2004-06-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Mac OS X security myth exposed
  211. 2004-06-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Copyright wars on again
  212. 2004-06-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Free Software Jihad
  213. 2004-06-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Tony Wiener - Eat your heart out - GNU/Linux in government
  214. 2004-06-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Retailer opens in Canada
  215. 2004-06-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] RE: Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004
  216. 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] RE: Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004
  217. 2004-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: A LITTLE QUOTE FROM MY SISTER (REGARDING THE BUSH ADMINISTRAT
  218. 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] JPEG Legal Battle
  219. 2004-06-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Employment HTML Developer
  220. 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 D ays
  221. 2004-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] RE: Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004
  222. 2004-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 D
  223. 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware 10 is released!
  224. 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004
  225. 2004-06-23 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 D ays and counti ng
  226. 2004-06-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 D ays
  227. 2004-06-23 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 Days and counti ng
  228. 2004-06-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Software Engineer (onsite), United States, NY, New York]
  229. 2004-06-22 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Perl Programmer, United States, CT, Stamford [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  230. 2004-06-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 Days and counti ng
  231. 2004-06-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Educational Initiative - June 24, 2004 6:45pm
  232. 2004-06-22 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Large Plans for Linux at Marist College
  233. 2004-06-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] infringement Festival - the LINUX of theatre
  234. 2004-06-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Desktop Linux: Sun Shines
  235. 2004-06-21 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Team page on SoftwareFreedomDay.org
  236. 2004-06-21 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Team page on SoftwareFreedomDay.org
  237. 2004-06-21 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] distro investigation for upcoming technight
  238. 2004-06-21 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Suse 9.1 Personal ISOs are available online...
  239. 2004-06-21 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] FAT Patent Review May Threaten Linux Foundation
  240. 2004-06-20 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Tech Night - Paul Robert
  241. 2004-06-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: your mail
  242. 2004-06-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Music DRM
  243. 2004-06-19 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: your mail
  244. 2004-06-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: your mail
  245. 2004-06-18 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com>
  246. 2004-06-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Educational Resource for Educational IT
  247. 2004-06-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations
  248. 2004-06-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Ontario's school system gives StarOffice a shot
  249. 2004-06-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] maildir to cyrus
  250. 2004-06-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Putting together PDF files
  251. 2004-06-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best
  252. 2004-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Calander:
  253. 2004-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] In Service Program
  254. 2004-06-17 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Free Software Publishing
  255. 2004-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Publisher Partnership Invitation
  256. 2004-06-17 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best
  257. 2004-06-17 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] U.S. House subcommittee approves spyware bill
  258. 2004-06-17 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best
  259. 2004-06-17 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best
  260. 2004-06-17 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best
  261. 2004-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [thomas-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: kernel (SuSE-SA:2004:017)]
  262. 2004-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [draht-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce] Discontinued SUSE Linux Distributions]
  263. 2004-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  264. 2004-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Articles on gconf and Sun Business start with FS
  265. 2004-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  266. 2004-06-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  267. 2004-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  268. 2004-06-16 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  269. 2004-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  270. 2004-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  271. 2004-06-18 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com>
  272. 2004-06-18 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com>
  273. 2004-06-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).

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