MESSAGE
| DATE | 2003-09-03 |
| FROM | Steve Milo
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [hangout] Interesting article on Valenti in this months Business2.0.
|
On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Steve Milo wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Joe Grastara wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --On Tuesday, September 2, 2003 7:19 PM -0400 Steve Milo
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Joe Grastara wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --On Friday, August 29, 2003 6:24 PM -0400 Steve Milo
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > The article is titled Who Speaks for Tech.
> > >> >
> > >> > Valenti is quoted as saying: "No Kingdom, no empire, no monarchy, no
> > >> > republic will endure unless its citizens are under a canopy of a sturdy
> > >> > moral compact -- and history is replete with the dry bleached bones of
> > >> > prior enterprises that have neglected that lesson".
> > >> >
> > >> > First, I thought this country was a democracy? Or am I wrong?
> > >>
> > >> You are wrong. The U.S. Government on some level a Republic with some
> > >> democratically elected public representation. These days we are in fact
> > >> more like an empire.
> > >
> > > No I'm not and you just proved so yourself that on some level we are still
> > > a democracy. Unlike plenty of wanna be empires that were not democratic
> > > on any level.
> > >
> > > History is replete with governments that failed because of the chokehold
> > > self-interested parties had on it. Even communist russia is an example of
> > > how it was manipulated by selfinterested parties. Everyone in that
> > > system wanted a piece of that action so much that it stifled innovation.
> > > Or atleast the proliferation of it.
> > > In the 60's they laughed at the US for attempting to create what we today
> > > call the internet. Shit, they even lauged at the US for trying to put
> > > men on the moon and bringing them back. But its obvious who won in the
> > > end.
> > >
> > >> >
> > >> > Second, the first three examples do not belong in the same league as
> > >> > the last one he cited.
> > >>
> > >> Nearly all governments responsible for a sufficiently large amount of
> > >> people end up converging in their appearance over time.
> > >
> > > Yes, but a monarchy is not a republic.
> >
> > Don't get caught up in technical definitions. You can call anything by
> > any name you wish, but it doesn't change what the thing is.
Right, a rose by any other name...
> > >> >
> > >> > Third, there is a reason those three examples he used have not
> > >> > survived to this day.
> > >> > Because they all were designed to keep the citizens under the
> > >> > thumb of a single ruler that was chosen arbitrarily.
> > >>
> > >> Rulers were never and are not chosen arbitrarily.
> > >
> > > Youre right, even communist russia had a system for choosing their
> > > leaders. But it wasn't by, for or with the people.
> >
> > Dude, are you kidding. Do you really think our leaders are chosen by, for
> > or with the people; certainly not the president. Our Presidential
> > electoral system was blatantly designed to minimize the weight of the
> > people's preference in the overall outcome of the election. Forget the
> > actually election, you only need to look at the corrupt primary system to
> > see that electing a president is not about accurately capturing public
> > choice, but about a battle between two parties more interested in
> > furthering their own power not for the sake of representing the public but
> > for multiplying their personal wealth.
>
Yes, its called the collegate electoral vote, something I learned in
Junior High School. It is a system that is designed to simplify the
election process while at the same time maintain somekind of integirty.
Yes, I used the clause 'somekind of integrity' because in real world
choices arent as binary as computers. Its a system that was designed from
the start to offer the 'best possible choice' or 'the least worst'.
More so to minimize the strain on the system that is created by the choice
afforded to the American people than to minimize it.
The system allows the growth and prosperity that this
country has enjoyed for the last 200 years.
It works, despite what cynics would have people believe.
Why am I supposed to care about how someone else gets rich?
> A country where every citizen is still afforded the right for self
> determination.
>
> > >
> > > Atleast this country still promises a voice for its citizens.
> > > Too bad many citizens surrender that right for complacency or are worse
> > > still silenced by cynics.
> > >
> > >> > Those systems were designed to keep the citizens ignorant, ill and
> > >> > dependant on a welfare system that was distributed as deemed fit by the
> > >> > ruler. Not unlike socialism/communism.
> > >> > Or am I wrong?
> > >>
> > >> You are wrong. Don't be so idealistic. Take a look at what is
> > >> happening in this country.
> > >
> > > Right, atleast there is some sembelence of information exchange in this
> > > country as opposed to other countries that hold information
> > > completely ransom.
> >
> > Instead of defending what we have you should be concerned with what we're
> > losing rapidly. The RIAA and the MPAA and Disney and hosts of other media
> > companies are working very hard to severely restrict the flows of
> > information in this country.
Isnt that why I brought up this article about Valenti?
> > >
> > > Even in current day russia people who aspire to more than is allowed to
> > > them are 'silenced'.
> > >
> > > Perhaps I should keep my mouth shut if I ever want to get anywhere in this
> > > world.
> > >
> > >> >
> > >> > Is it my imagination or is Valenti a seriously mentally disturbed
> > >> > indiviudual?
> > >>
> > >> It's your imagination.
> > >
> > > I was probably a little harsh on him, he does have a right to
> > > voice his opinion on important matters. Actually I was probably
> > > completely wrong about him. If he was able to make the kind of headway he
> > > has in Congress I shouldnt have any doubt he is a very intelligent man.
> > >
> >
> > It's not a matter of being harsh, the man is evil but as you pointed out
> > not stupid.
> >
> > > Steve M
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > ____________________________
> > >> > NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> > >> > Fair Use -
> > >> > because it's either fair use or useless....
> > >> > NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Joe Grastara
> > >> Systems Administrator
> > >> NYU School of Medicine
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Joe Grastara
> > Systems Administrator
> > NYU School of Medicine
> >
>
>
____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc
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