MESSAGE
| DATE | 2003-05-04 |
| FROM | Ruben Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Subject: [hangout] Jay's suppresion on our mailing list
|
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/appl/nylinux/mail/bysubject.html?idno=9147
Jay Sulzberger Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: a proposed solution || 2003-02-15 || mesgno 9147
On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Derek Neighbors wrote:
> On Sat, 2003-02-15 at 12:45, Ruben Safir wrote:
> > When I lead everyone down to Washington for the DOC hears under NY Fair Use,
> > it was clearly not obstructive, and it was completely productive.
>
> I have remained extremely silent on this issue, despite my response to
> David's email to our mailing list starting this debate. (which needed to
> happen anyhow)
>
> While I think much good was done there (DOC hearings), I do not think
> its fair to say it was totally productive. Some of the tatics used were
> damaging. I think the trade off of good to bad was favorable and I
> would call it a success.
It was completely successful. On 17 September 2002 New Yorkers for Fair
Use and many other organizations fighting for our right to private
ownership of computers and for free use of the Net met with Phillip Bond
and Chris Israel and their team at the Department of Commerce. We were told
officially that the Department of Commerce is against any "technological
mandate", that is any direct outlawing of private ownership of computers.
At the 17 July 2002 roundtable Jack Valenti and the RIAA representative
were making a strong move to get the DOC to support outlawing of private
ownership and private use of computers in the home, and to outlaw free
private, tribal, business, and public use of the Net. We went down on 17
July 2002 to argue against this and the 17 September 2002 meeting was the
meeting at which we did present our arguments in full.
Ruben Safir refused to take part in the 17 September 2002 meeting.
From that day to this, Ruben Safir has refused to take part in any further
actions of New Yorkers for Fair Use. We wish Ruben would again join with
us, but if he does not want to join us, we wish he would stop claiming to
be New Yorkers for Fair Use.
To see some of what New Yorkers for Fair Use have done since Ruben left:
http://www.nyfairuse.org
I am at present a working member of New Yorkers for Fair Use and I was a
working member when Ruben was a working member. Since 17 September 2002
Ruben has attacked every action of New Yorkers for Fair Use, and Ruben has
made ridiculous personal attacks on working members of New Yorkers for Fair
Use.
>
> > NY Fair Use is leading this again, and Monday is the time to discuss the
> > details of this.
No. Perhaps the Political Action Committee of NYLXS is planning some
action having to do with the upcoming eGov* conference, but as of right
now, New Yorkers for Fair Use is not. Some working members of New Yorkers
for Fair Use may be outside with Ruben and NYLXS in full Revolutionary War
drag and some may be inside in whatever drag we please, but right now, any
actions planned by Ruben and NYLXS-PAC have nothing whatsoever to do with
New Yorkers for Fair Use. Perhaps in the next few weeks, New Yorkers for
Fair Use may take some action with regard to eGov*, but, to repeat, right
now we have no such plans.
>
> I hope this time they are just as vigilant, yet more professional.
> There was much tact lacking from the DOC event.
Derek, were you there? The newspaper reports were inaccurate. No
disruption occurred. Indeed, Jack Valenti invited us to the table, and
Phillip Bond agreed. Phillip said that there was not time nor space for us
to join the roundtable on 17 July 2002, but Phillip Bond made promise to
invite us down for a long serious meeting. Phillip Bond kept his word, and
he kept it handsomely, and we said "Yes, we want to meet with you, and the
ALA, and the EFF, and PublicKnowledge, and etc..".
I regret that I have had to so brutally state the facts of the case, as
regards Ruben's claims about his relationship with New Yorkers for Fair
Use. I wish the facts were otherwise. Naturally, my recitation is just
the account of one individual, who has worked with New Yorkers for Fair Use
from its early days, who helped to organize the 17 July 2002 action, was at
the 17 July 2002 roundtable, and took part in the 17 September 2002
meeting, and who today is working with all of New Yorkers for Fair Use to
stop the Broadcast Flag Mandate, to identify and boycott all Palladium
enabling hardware, and to reach out to other groups around the world to
help fight for our ancient rights of property and free speech.
Indeed, tomorrow, New Yorkers for Fair Use will be meeting in New York City
for a whole day of work. We start early, about 10:00 am in the middle of
the Island of the Manahattoes. All who wish to volunteer, or just want to
learn more, please email me. At least once a week New Yorkers for Fair Use
members meet and do formal outreach work for the Cause in New York City.
Come on down!
oo--JS.
>
> > The goal in both events will be to force government to use Free Software to
> > assure fair use and equal competition for Free Software marketers.
>
> While there are many things to convey at eGovOS and ways to do so, one I
> think we should stay away from is 'forcing' the Government into using
> Free Software. The minute we start forcing (via brute force) people to
> choose our way, we are no better than Microsoft. I think we should
> encourage them to allow their agencies to choose. As many agencies
> currently don't even get that chance.
>
> I hope that if we can not encourage the eGovOS committee that having
> Microsoft speak is a faux pas. That we can perhaps educate as many
> people coming as possible about the ills of Shared Source and the
> freedoms granted with Free Software that are lacking in other types of
> software. If that opportunity is not afforded we likely need to protest
> to have our voice heard. Whatever the course of action I hope it can be
> done and conducted with better manners and more professionalism than has
> been demonstrated during this debate among people in the same camp.
>
> > --
> > Derek Neighbors
> > GNU Enterprise
> > http://www.gnuenterprise.org
> > derek-at-gnue.org
> >
> > Was I helpful? Let others know:
> > http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=dneighbo
>
____________________________
New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
1-718-382-0585
____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc
|
|
