MESSAGE
| DATE | 2003-05-04 |
| FROM | Ruben Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [hangout] Jay's suppresion on our mailing list
|
Subject: [hangout] a proposed solution || 2003-02-15 || mesgno 9148
<>
Oh Stop lieing Jay. You know that NY Fair Use is doing fine and well
with its membership. We just kicked you and Brett out because you broke
with the group.
I would have been more successful, but lets face it, you broke thing up
and stopped our Press Conference after the event. In fact, when I asked
you to give me a minute for the Pres Conference after the event,
you refused to break up your continuing private discussion with the Press.
You just went on and on, and undermined our message.
But it didn't stop there, did it? No, then when we came home, you
took it upon yourself to represent an organization you had superficial
involvement with, outside of the fact that you were staying at my house.
So when we were bargaining for a public meeting in September, you caved in
for a private meeting with the DOC which effectively pigeonholed us.
And then, as the head of NYFairUse, I told you that we would do a meeting
privately, I said that we would agree to only a small meeting of just us
and them, one on one.
And then you went behind our back and betrayed the organization A SECOND TIME
and invited everyone on earth into the conference. And then Brett lied to me,
after he said he wouldn't participate in that September 17th meeting because
it would water down our message, then he went down away, and admited that I was
completely right, and it was all screwed up, with very little time to actually
present our message properly. And others said you put on a huge show of yourself
and made everyone laugh, but you screwed up our message further.
We can not take you back, because we can't be guaanteed that you would cooperate
and behave. And that's how it is.
NY Fair Use is where is ALWAYS was, at fairuse.nylxs.com.
There is the original mailing list. It's doing just fine. We have continued
now to fix what you screwed up, and which you continue to screw up.
So knock it off with your ego, return the www.nyfairuse.org and the www.nylxs.og domains
back to the organization, and stop rewriting history. And stop disrupting our meetings and
our events.
BTW - I've never left my organization. It's my organization and it's now run by NYLXS.
We are having our meeting Monday and your not expected to disrupt it (again).
Ruben
I am at present a working member of New Yorkers for Fair Use
No - you aren't. You don't work with anyone. You just do what you want
all the time. And you've wasted a lot of peoples energy and time.
It's time for you to stop.
<>
I am more than a member of NY Fair Use...
I'm it's only founder and it's current and only President.
< Ruben has attacked every action of New Yorkers for Fair Use, and Ruben has
made ridiculous personal attacks on working members of New Yorkers for Fair
Use.>>
What a load of shit. I never showed up at any of your regegade meeting.
I'm not cysquatting on both the NYLXS domain and the NYFAIRUSE domain, and
I'm not the one going to GNUbies and other venues, screeming at NYLXS members
and telling everyone who will listen that 'Ruben Safir' is crazy.
That was you and Brett.
Now your ticked because we are again making hay other egov-os. Your an obstructionist.
< action having to do with the upcoming eGov* conference, but as of right
now, New Yorkers for Fair Use is not. >>
Yes - it is. And you will not disrupt the meeting AGAIN.
< regards Ruben's claims about his relationship with New Yorkers for Fair
Use. >>
You don't know anythign about NY Fair Use, and you wont win thi one Jay.
Just move on. If you had integrety, you would have just created a new group.
That's what I've done when I'm not satisfied with how a group runs. You,
on the otherhand, think it's acceptable to hurt others, and undermined their work,
and strip them of their labor. It's not different from Microsoft.
Ruben
On Sun, May 04, 2003 at 04:18:04AM -0400, Ruben Safir wrote:
>
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/appl/nylinux/mail/bysubject.html?idno=9147
>
> Jay Sulzberger Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: a proposed solution || 2003-02-15 || mesgno 9147
>
>
> On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Derek Neighbors wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 2003-02-15 at 12:45, Ruben Safir wrote:
> > > When I lead everyone down to Washington for the DOC hears under NY Fair Use,
> > > it was clearly not obstructive, and it was completely productive.
> >
> > I have remained extremely silent on this issue, despite my response to
> > David's email to our mailing list starting this debate. (which needed to
> > happen anyhow)
> >
> > While I think much good was done there (DOC hearings), I do not think
> > its fair to say it was totally productive. Some of the tatics used were
> > damaging. I think the trade off of good to bad was favorable and I
> > would call it a success.
>
> It was completely successful. On 17 September 2002 New Yorkers for Fair
> Use and many other organizations fighting for our right to private
> ownership of computers and for free use of the Net met with Phillip Bond
> and Chris Israel and their team at the Department of Commerce. We were told
> officially that the Department of Commerce is against any "technological
> mandate", that is any direct outlawing of private ownership of computers.
> At the 17 July 2002 roundtable Jack Valenti and the RIAA representative
> were making a strong move to get the DOC to support outlawing of private
> ownership and private use of computers in the home, and to outlaw free
> private, tribal, business, and public use of the Net. We went down on 17
> July 2002 to argue against this and the 17 September 2002 meeting was the
> meeting at which we did present our arguments in full.
>
> Ruben Safir refused to take part in the 17 September 2002 meeting.
>
> From that day to this, Ruben Safir has refused to take part in any further
> actions of New Yorkers for Fair Use. We wish Ruben would again join with
> us, but if he does not want to join us, we wish he would stop claiming to
> be New Yorkers for Fair Use.
>
> To see some of what New Yorkers for Fair Use have done since Ruben left:
>
> http://www.nyfairuse.org
>
> I am at present a working member of New Yorkers for Fair Use and I was a
> working member when Ruben was a working member. Since 17 September 2002
> Ruben has attacked every action of New Yorkers for Fair Use, and Ruben has
> made ridiculous personal attacks on working members of New Yorkers for Fair
> Use.
>
> >
> > > NY Fair Use is leading this again, and Monday is the time to discuss the
> > > details of this.
>
> No. Perhaps the Political Action Committee of NYLXS is planning some
> action having to do with the upcoming eGov* conference, but as of right
> now, New Yorkers for Fair Use is not. Some working members of New Yorkers
> for Fair Use may be outside with Ruben and NYLXS in full Revolutionary War
> drag and some may be inside in whatever drag we please, but right now, any
> actions planned by Ruben and NYLXS-PAC have nothing whatsoever to do with
> New Yorkers for Fair Use. Perhaps in the next few weeks, New Yorkers for
> Fair Use may take some action with regard to eGov*, but, to repeat, right
> now we have no such plans.
>
> >
> > I hope this time they are just as vigilant, yet more professional.
> > There was much tact lacking from the DOC event.
>
> Derek, were you there? The newspaper reports were inaccurate. No
> disruption occurred. Indeed, Jack Valenti invited us to the table, and
> Phillip Bond agreed. Phillip said that there was not time nor space for us
> to join the roundtable on 17 July 2002, but Phillip Bond made promise to
> invite us down for a long serious meeting. Phillip Bond kept his word, and
> he kept it handsomely, and we said "Yes, we want to meet with you, and the
> ALA, and the EFF, and PublicKnowledge, and etc..".
>
> I regret that I have had to so brutally state the facts of the case, as
> regards Ruben's claims about his relationship with New Yorkers for Fair
> Use. I wish the facts were otherwise. Naturally, my recitation is just
> the account of one individual, who has worked with New Yorkers for Fair Use
> from its early days, who helped to organize the 17 July 2002 action, was at
> the 17 July 2002 roundtable, and took part in the 17 September 2002
> meeting, and who today is working with all of New Yorkers for Fair Use to
> stop the Broadcast Flag Mandate, to identify and boycott all Palladium
> enabling hardware, and to reach out to other groups around the world to
> help fight for our ancient rights of property and free speech.
>
> Indeed, tomorrow, New Yorkers for Fair Use will be meeting in New York City
> for a whole day of work. We start early, about 10:00 am in the middle of
> the Island of the Manahattoes. All who wish to volunteer, or just want to
> learn more, please email me. At least once a week New Yorkers for Fair Use
> members meet and do formal outreach work for the Cause in New York City.
>
> Come on down!
>
> oo--JS.
>
>
> >
> > > The goal in both events will be to force government to use Free Software to
> > > assure fair use and equal competition for Free Software marketers.
> >
> > While there are many things to convey at eGovOS and ways to do so, one I
> > think we should stay away from is 'forcing' the Government into using
> > Free Software. The minute we start forcing (via brute force) people to
> > choose our way, we are no better than Microsoft. I think we should
> > encourage them to allow their agencies to choose. As many agencies
> > currently don't even get that chance.
> >
> > I hope that if we can not encourage the eGovOS committee that having
> > Microsoft speak is a faux pas. That we can perhaps educate as many
> > people coming as possible about the ills of Shared Source and the
> > freedoms granted with Free Software that are lacking in other types of
> > software. If that opportunity is not afforded we likely need to protest
> > to have our voice heard. Whatever the course of action I hope it can be
> > done and conducted with better manners and more professionalism than has
> > been demonstrated during this debate among people in the same camp.
> >
> > > --
> > > Derek Neighbors
> > > GNU Enterprise
> > > http://www.gnuenterprise.org
> > > derek-at-gnue.org
> > >
> > > Was I helpful? Let others know:
> > > http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=dneighbo
> >
> ____________________________
> New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
>
> --
> __________________________
> Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> __________________________
> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com
>
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
> http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
>
> 1-718-382-0585
> ____________________________
> NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
> NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc
--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
1-718-382-0585
____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc
|
|
