MESSAGE
| DATE | 2003-02-16 |
| FROM | Ruben I Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Subject: [hangout] NYFAIRUSE dispute
|
After consulting with members of the NYLXS board, we've decided on a few things
in response to this continued dispute.
First, after reviewing the evidence, the board is unaminous is agreeing that
NY Fair Use is the proper brand of NYLXS. The overwhelming evidence on the
mailing list, and the detailed history of the group efforts and the sole
leadership of Ruben makes it clear that the dispute of facts as stated by
Jay and Brett have no basis in real history.
Secondly, its been decided that the at no time was the registration of the
domain, NYLXS.org, by Mr Wynkoop was authorized. In fact, the boards minutes
clearly show that the President aked immediately for the domain of NYLXS.org
at the moment of it's unauthorized registration by Mr Wynkoop.
Third Mr Wynkoop has been asked repeatedly not to mirror the NYLXS site.
This decision was made largely because of Mr Wynkoops inability to work with
the board and the organization in a number of areas, including but not excliussively
his refuse to give the NYLXS.org domain to NYLXS, his activities at undermining
the NY Fair Use organization, and his disruption of NYLXS meetings.
Forth, NYLXS is willing to trade publically the NY Fair Use brand to Mr Sulzburger
and Mr Wynkoop in exchange for our NYLXS.org domain. This would entail a public
statement by Mr Safir that the NY Fair Use organization, which has now been folded
into NYLXS, would rename itself as the Board sees fit, and give clear rights to
Mr Wynkoop to use the brand NY Fair Use without rebuttle, or interference.
Mr Sulzburger and Mr Wynkoop will also agree to never again interfere with the
activities of NYLXS again, and in all matters dealing with NYLXS accend to the
decisions of the NYLXS board. NYLXS will also reliquish the regered domain of
NY-FairUse.org which has been currently registered, and is ready to go on line
in the next few weeks.
Mr Humphrey's, the NYLXS alwyer will be asked to draft an agreement between the
NYLXS board and Mr Sulzburger and Mr Wynkoop to this effect.
The board is willing to do this because our feeling that the value of the NYLXS.org
domain inexpensively, and without needing to pay forthe immepending court battle over the
Trademark is a worthwhile goal. We hope that Mr Wynkoop sees the benifit to his efforts
in this matter and agrees to this in the coming week.
This offer is on the table for 7 days.
Ruben
On 2003.02.16 03:04 Brett Wynkoop wrote:
>
> Ruben Ranted:
>
> >Oh Stop lieing Jay. You know that NY Fair Use is doing fine and well
> >with its membership. We just kicked you and Brett out because you broke
> >with the group.
>
> I do not seem to have any knowldge of the event you describe here. Please
> try to stick to facts of current reality if you are going to speak on these matters.
>
> >I would have been more successful, but lets face it, you broke thing up
> >and stopped our Press Conference after the event. In fact, when I asked
> >you to give me a minute for the Pres Conference after the event,
> >ou refused to break up your continuing private discussion with the Press.
>
> Sounds to me like this is about ruben not getting the attention he wanted
> when he wanted it. When some one on our side in this fight has the ear
> of the press they are wise to give the press as much input as they can handle
> before they get away. As you know members of the press spoke to you, and also
> to Vinnie and me.
>
>
> >But it didn't stop there, did it? No, then when we came home, you
> >took it upon yourself to represent an organization you had superficial
> >involvement with, outside of the fact that you were staying at my house.
>
> Actually at that time he never said he was with New Yorkers For Fair Use.
> Today is the first I recall Jay making any public statement that he is with
> New Yorkers For Fair Use.
>
> >So when we were bargaining for a public meeting in September, you caved in
> >for a private meeting with the DOC which effectively pigeonholed us.
>
> Jay did not make agreement or arrangement for all the attendees. Each or
> group decided on the very good September meeting on thier own in the end.
> Jay traveled down as the rep from LXNY, a group that he has long been
> an official of.
>
> >And then, as the head of NYFairUse, I told you that we would do a meeting
> >privately, I said that we would agree to only a small meeting of just us
> >and them, one on one.
>
> Well you were not the "head". You may not recall, but everything New Yorkers
> For Fair Use did before you stopped working with us was discussed and agreed
> upon by both of us. In fact you and I discussed the September meeting
> several times and we both went back and forth on participation by New
> Yorkers For Fair Use.
>
> >And then you went behind our back and betrayed the organization A SECOND TIME
> >and invited everyone on earth into the conference. And then Brett lied to me,
> >after he said he wouldn't participate in that September 17th meeting because
> >it would water down our message, then he went down away, and admited that I
> >was
> >completely right, and it was all screwed up, with very little time to actually
> >present our message properly. And others said you put on a huge show of yourself
> >and made everyone laugh, but you screwed up our message further.
>
> Just before sundown on the eve of a Jewish Holiday before the meeting you and
> I confered. At that time with the information we had we both agreed that
> neither NYLXS or New Yorkers For Fair Use should go to the meeting. As
> you well know from our conversation after the meeting I got a personel phone
> call from Philip Bond's office with more information about the meeting than
> you had passed on to me and with the specific request that I attend. You
> might also note that RMS was at the meeting, but I have seen no bile put forth
> against Richard for doing such a bad thing as having a meeting with government
> officials without you. Had you been contactable before the trip to DC
> you would have known before the meeting that I had changed my mind.
>
>
> >We can not take you back, because we can't be guaanteed that you would cooperate
> >and behave. And that's how it is.
>
> Funny this is how the some working members of New Yorkers For Fair Use seem to
> feel about you at this point, but you may note that no one has said anything
> in public forum against you, or spread any misinformation about you. No
> one has threatened to kill you either. Please give us the same level of respect.
>
> >NY Fair Use is where is ALWAYS was, at fairuse.nylxs.com.
>
> Gosh I seem to never remember that as the official web site for New Yorkers
> For Fair Use. It has always been at http://www.nyfairuse.org/, first on
> a Solaris box, then migrated to a FreeBSD Box at the same location.
> You can check Netcraft.com to see where the site has been in the past.
>
> >There is the original mailing list. It's doing just fine. We have continued
> >now to fix what you screwed up, and which you continue to screw up.
>
> >From what I have seen in the archives of the mailing list on the NYLXS server
> it is mainly Ruben talking to himself.
>
> >So knock it off with your ego, return the www.nyfairuse.org and the www.nylxs.og domains
> >back to the organization, and stop rewriting history. And stop disrupting our meetings and
> >our events.
>
> I agree Ruben the ego trips must stop. It hurts the movement and wastes
> energy we could put into the movement instead. This is one reason we
> have so long ignored you. I leave it as an exercise for the reader
> to decide who has an ego problem.
>
> >BTW - I've never left my organization. It's my organization and it's now run by NYLXS.
>
> No one disagrees that you are the current President of NYLXS. No one
> disputes that you have done and may well still in the future do good work
> on information freedom issues, but please do not confuse being President of
> NYLXS and working with it's Political Action Committee with being the
> leader of a group that you have not worked with in many months.
>
> In many ways the PAC of a Free Software Group can do more good than
> a group focused on the more narrow issue of Fair Use. While the I am not
> convinced the Egov conference issue with Microsoft is something that
> New Yorkers For Fair Use should be involved in I can say as a member
> of the Free Software Community since the 1980's that it might be a correct
> action for a Free Software Group. Remember Fair Use Issues are a subset of
> Free Software Issues.
>
> >We are having our meeting Monday and your not expected to disrupt it (again).
>
> I have no knowldge of anyone from New Yorkers For Fair Use disrupting any
> of your meetings.
>
> >>Jay said:
> >>I am at present a working member of New Yorkers for Fair Use
>
> Ruben Replied:
> >No - you aren't. You don't work with anyone. You just do what you want
> >all the time. And you've wasted a lot of peoples energy and time.
>
> >It's time for you to stop.
>
> Actually Ruben Jay has been at most of the recent New Yorkers For Fair Use
> meetings. You would know about them if you had not decided to black hole
> mail sent from the network our systems are on.
>
> I agree Ruben you need to stop this nonesense. You have a very good group
> of people in NYLXS that can if properly lead achieve much. Move on and
> work with them on political action if that is what NYLXS wants to do, but
> give up the pretense of having anything to do with New Yorkers For Fair Use
> at this time. Many good people have left the fight, or left your circle of
> influence because they do not want to put up with the nonesense.
>
> Jay Said:
> <>
>
> Ruben Responded:
>
> >I am more than a member of NY Fair Use...
>
> Yes you were the co-founder of New Yorkers For Fair Use.
>
> >I'm it's only founder and it's current and only President.
>
> The first is not at all acurate. I think there may even be some hangout
> archives that have mail where you refer to the other co-founder of New
> Yorkers For Fair Use, but I can no longer verify that because it seems that
> some one is no longer willing to allow the hangout archive to be a public
> record.
>
> You actually never were the president of the group either, but that is moot
> as you are currently not connected with the group in any way.
>
> Jay Said:
> <> Ruben has attacked every action of New Yorkers for Fair Use, and Ruben has
> made ridiculous personal attacks on working members of New Yorkers for Fair
> Use.>>
>
> Ruben Profaned:
> >What a load of shit. I never showed up at any of your regegade meeting.
> >I'm not cysquatting on both the NYLXS domain and the NYFAIRUSE domain, and
> >I'm not the one going to GNUbies and other venues, screeming at NYLXS members
> >and telling everyone who will listen that 'Ruben Safir' is crazy.
>
> >That was you and Brett.
>
> Ruben I am astonished that you resorted to such base language in a public
> forum.
>
> New Yorkers For Fair Use has never had a "regegade meeting", but you were at
> many of our meetings before last fall. You were often so excited as to ignore
> established procedure, but your energy for the cause was boundless.
>
> whois nylxs.com
>
> Registrant:
> SAFIR, RUBEN (NYLXS-DOM)
> 1600 East 17th Street
> BROOKLYN, NY 11230
> US
>
> Domain Name: NYLXS.COM
>
> Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
> SAFIR, RUBEN (RSB468) ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com
> SAFIR,RUBEN
> 1600 East 17th Street
> BROOKLYN, NY 11230
> US
> 1 718 382 5752 123 123 1234
>
> Record expires on 04-Oct-2003.
> Record created on 04-Oct-2001.
> Database last updated on 16-Feb-2003 02:31:24 EST.
>
> Domain servers in listed order:
>
> WWW2.MRBRKLYN.COM 64.105.122.138
> MAIL.RM-CPA.COM 64.0.231.98
>
> Sure looks to me like you own that domain and not the club. So drop the
> grandstand ploy and histrionics.
>
> As for nyfairuse.org it's ownership is not any of your concern.
>
> I am very glad that you are not "going to GNUbies and other venues, screeming
> at NYLXS members and telling everyone who will listen that 'Ruben Safir' is
> crazy."
>
> I would hate to hear that anyone was doing any of those things.
>
> Ruben Droned On:
> >Now your ticked because we are again making hay other egov-os. Your an
> >obstructionist.
>
> Jay Responded:
> <> action having to do with the upcoming eGov* conference, but as of right
> now, New Yorkers for Fair Use is not. >>
>
> Ruben responded:
> >Yes - it is. And you will not disrupt the meeting AGAIN.
>
> At this time there are no plans for New Yorkers For Fair Use to do anything at
> eGov*, but that does not mean that some one may not see some of our membership
> there not connected with a NYFU action. I may even go.
>
>
> Jay Remorsed:
> <> regards Ruben's claims about his relationship with New Yorkers for Fair
> Use. >>
>
> Ruben again:
> >You don't know anythign about NY Fair Use, and you wont win thi one Jay.
> >Just move on. If you had integrety, you would have just created a new group.
>
> Ruben you should take your own advice on this one. No one at New Yorkers
> For Fair Use wants anything but success for you in your future projects.
>
> Ruben wraps up:
> >That's what I've done when I'm not satisfied with how a group runs. You,
> >on the otherhand, think it's acceptable to hurt others, and undermined their
> >work, and strip them of their labor. It's not different from Microsoft.
>
> I can not say exactly what Jay thinks and neither can you, but since you
> stopped working with New Yorkers For Fair Use in the fall it is clear that
> your comparison with Microsoft here is just a grand stand play attempt to
> villify Jay by association with Microsoft.
>
> < over long Ruben .sig cut >
>
> -Brett
>
> --
> DRM is theft! We are the stakeholders! http://www.nyfairuse.org/
>
--
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Fair Use -
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