MESSAGE
| DATE | 2003-02-18 |
| FROM | vin
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| SUBJECT | Subject: [hangout] NYLXS, NYFairUse
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I've been spending some time going over the hangout archive. Unfortunately,
I've had my plug pulled by my isp, so I've been at a disadvantage on keeping
up to speed on relevant issues.
1. I'm glad to see the log-in of the archive. I've urged that this be done
more than once. If the archive can be spidered by google and other search
engines, and manually by spammers, we are never going to stop getting spam.
Spammers searching for and using mail lists is a well known tactic on their
part. Glad to see someone has finally decided to take my advice on this, as
the spam I get is out of control. Also, as the recent Newsforge/Stanco
bruhaha has brought to other peoples' attention, and as has been apparent to
me from the beginning, it cannot be denied that NYLXS has attracted the
attention of microsoft. Anyone familiar with the OS/2 wars knows that
microsoft is a veteran at grass roots tactics. Letting them into the
archive, and into strategy on the part of NYLXS is ludicrous. They in all
probability will be able to get access to hangout mail through other means.
No reason to make it easy for them. I also brought this up previously.
2. I've been trying to see both sides of the cybersquatting argument, but I
just can't see it. I've been witness and involved in some major
disagreements, and it has been my experience that it is always best to step
back, give everyone the benefit of the doubt, try and see everyone's
differing views of the issues, and try to resolve the issues by either
involving neutral third parties, or by some way of compromising and settling
the issues. This is my take on things:
2a) NYLXS is a registered trademark of the NYLXS organization.
2b) due to prior use by NYLXS, and Ruben, the only individual who can dispute
the registration of the trademark is Ruben. As Ruben has already made clear,
the NYLXS trademark, use of NYLXS, the NYLXS web site, and anything connected
to NYLXS belongs to the organization. This should be documented. I believe
a simple statement by the board during a meeting attended by the majority of
board members (or whatever the procedures are required by the Charter), and
agreed to by Ruben, and recorded, should be sufficient. If there are not
enough members for the quorum due to the inclement weather, an alternate
means of accomplishing this should be implemented, such as doing it on the
list, then each board member affirming their vote or decision or statement in
person at the next meeting they attend.
2c) From what I've been reading from the archive, NYFairUse can only be
registered as a trademark, if that is decided, by Ruben, or by Ruben passing
this right to NYLXS should NYLXS desire to do this. How do I reach this
conclusion? From the archive, it is abundantly clear that Ruben has prior
use in his corner. Anyone else attempting to register NYFairUse as a
trademark can in all probability be challenged by Ruben on prior use grounds.
Of course, I am not a lawyer, so the standard disclaimer applies.
2c) I have asked on several occasions for Brett to call me and talk to me
about this issue not to resolve the issue, but just to get his views. On
each occasion, including in voice conversations, there was some reason or
excuse on his part, as to why he could not speak to me at that time. On each
occasion, he has indicated that he would call me at a later time or date to
discuss the issue. He never has followed up on his promise.
I don't like arguing any point by not having a full understanding of
everything, and not having all the facts. But all the facts I have now
support Ruben Safir, and NYLXS, and do not support Brett, or anyone else
arguing Brett's point of view. This is where this particular issue stands at
this time.
Brett and others may feel they have rights to the NYFairUse mark. Whether
this is true or not, it is a non-issue of the NYLXS.org domain.
Cybersquatting on NYLXS.org for exerting some pressure on the NYFairUse
domain/group use is extortion in my opinion, and if cybersquatting to get
under someone's skin is the reason, this is so unbelievably childish I can't
believe it. Can someone really be that childish? Is there any other reason
other than either extortion or childishness? Again, just my opinion.
>From what I've seen in the archive, Ruben was the organizer of NYFairUse
meetings and direction going back to at least August '01. I have not seen
any mention of Brett at any of these early meetings. There are others listed
at these early meetings who it appears are not involved with either
organization at this point in time, and have not been involved going back to
7/17/02. I would like to hear their view on this issue.
I met Jay for the first time at an installfest at the headquarters of a
company that was advertised as a gnu/linux hardware company, which went
public, lost their shirts, and then declared that they weren't a gnu/linux
company anymore. I forget the name, but I'm sure everyone knows which
company I'm talking about. My impression of Jay was at that time, and
continued to be, that Jay is a nice guy, has a great personality, and is a
fun guy to be around. He is also very effective in advocacy because of this.
I don't know what happened between Ruben and Jay, but what I'm seeing of
Jay's writings concerning this issue, I'm having trouble comprehending.
I'm open to receiving any documentation to dispell any conclusions I've
reached on this matter, and I am still open to talking to Brett, or anyone
who believes that Brett should have the rights to NYLXS.org for reasons other
than extortion/leverage or childishness, and for the NYFairUse founding
issue. As others have stated, if they believed that NYFairUse was not
representing their voice, they were free to break from the founder of
NYFairUse. But hijacking the group is not legitimate in my opinion. If
anyone has further info to change my opinion on this, I am open to receiving
it, and I am specifically asking for it. It will not be the first time I
have done a complete 180 degree turn after receiving more information or a
differing point of view.
>From my perspective, each group has the expertise and drive to succeed on
their own. There should be no reason for one group to have to rely on the
name or reputation of another group. Badmouthing, from both sides, is
damaging the reputation and standing of individuals from both sides, and the
reputation and standing of organizations that have shown that on a
shoestring, they have been able to get things done. Neither side is without
fault on this.
For the good of gnu/linux, this bickering must stop. This division is only
helping microsoft. Let us please resolve this. I am open to listening to
anyone and everyone to come to some conclusion on this.
Until this issue is resolved, it appears that there are two groups vying for
the NYFairUse mark. I would suggest that as each group posts meeting or
action information, that the competing group refrain from trashing the other.
A simple, one line statement stating that your particular group is or is not
meeting on such and such date, and is instead meeting at such and such date
is sufficient. Attempting to destroy each other in multi paragraph rants is
counter-productive to both groups. You are attempting to grow your
membership, not alienate possible future members. This would be a good test
to see how reasonable each side can be. Take the high ground. Resolving the
NYFairUse issue will not happen on a mailing list. It will either be
resolved by sitting down and agreeing to disagree and each side compromising,
or it will be resolved through other formal channels. Airing you shit in
public is not working.
Vin.
ps. I can also be contacted off list by emailing directly.
pps., I'm still having some trouble sending mails out due to a mail server
misconfiguration not recognizing several of my boxes. Due to this, it may be
a short (day or two) delay in me getting back to you. It took me a week to
get back on some lists.
bcc: Seth, Jay, Brett, Ruben, hangout
____________________________
New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
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