MESSAGE
| DATE | 2003-02-19 |
| FROM | Ruben Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [hangout] NYLXS, NYFairUse
|
This aspect of the dispute is gibberish anyway.
Bret has never in his life been in a position like this, where he held what he
perceives as some sway someone, and then reliquished it.
He refused to surrender the NYLXS domain before, after and during the dispute
over New Yorkers For Fair Use.
As for the list, I don't view this as censorship, but if the board wishes
to put Jay back on the list, I'd do what the board wants. In my opinion, Jay was
trying to damage the organization through the use of the list, mostly by posting
falsehoods about organization and inception.
In fact, I still see this. Here we have JAY claim (and I'm sure these are Brets
words as I've heard him use this expresion before) that Bret will surrender the
DOT.ORG domain when he gts an apology for screwing us, and 'When We get our house
in order".
This is a typical hissy fit by Wynkoop because he's failed to dominate NYLXS,
a power grab by him, and an attempt to extert external control over our
organization through non-Democratic means.
It's no different than when he grabbed the classes.... it's ALL in our benifit.
Jay - your exerting preasure on the wrong indivdual in this matter.
Brett has been given a chance to talk to the board and has refused. That was a
limited time offer. We're only will to sit down now to adress one issue, the
trade of NYLXS for NY Fair Use, and there is only 4 more days of that offer.
Both NYLXS and NY Fair Use has been patient, civilized and yet persistant on this
matter. There will be no preentation with any meetings. There will only be
a business meeting when they are ready to hand over the domain. And there will be
no meeting until they guarantee that they are prepared to do that,
Ruben
On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 10:27:30AM -0500, vin wrote:
>
> This is exactly the reason that Jay or Brett are not on the list. I received
> the email, and responded to the email as everyone has seen. While the quoted
> response by Jay may be offensive to some in NYLXS, or all in NYLXS, these
> type of responses would get us nowhere, and is counter-productive to settling
> the issue.
>
> It is exactly the same issue of the bickering on the public lists. Whether
> someone's viewpoint is correct or not, that is not going to solve anything
> from two opposing viewpoints.
>
> This is why Jay should not be on the list. It can and should be settled in a
> sit down. But as I stated, as more information comes to light, I may put
> forward a resolution to getting Jay reinstated on the list. But I honestly
> believe at this point that it would be counter-productive to do so.
>
> Vin.
>
> On Wednesday 19 February 2003 09:52, Inker, Evan wrote:
>
> > as Jay as proposed:
> > > As for "cybersquatting", no, if I were Brett, I would never hand back
> > > the domain, not to Ruben certainly, and not to NYLXS until NYLXS
> > > apologized and meant it. As of right now Ruben Safir owns NYLXS.com,
> > > and as far as I can tell, Ruben it as he pleeases. When that is
> > > corrected, and NYLXS gets its house in order, you might try asking
> > > politely for any domains you want from whomever you want.
> >
> > Personally, I feel no need to apologize to anyone to get back property
> > which does not rightfully belong to them. And how dare JS have the
> > presumption to tell the NYLXS organization:
> >
> > "When that is corrected, and NYLXS gets its house in order, you might try
> > asking politely for any domains you want from whomever you want."
> >
> > Ask politely for what is yours to be returned? Sounds a lot like extortion
> > or blackmail. A good analogy (made at the meeting actually) of this is a
> > child who becomes disenchanted with not being picked to quarterback a
> > football game picks up his football and calls off the game leaving everyone
> > in the lurch. Only thing is that the "football" in question belonged to the
> > child, but the NYLXS domain does not belong to Brett and never has. While I
> > and many others are very grateful that JS and Brett provided relief during
> > the time that Ruben was out of town and lost his Speakeasy DSL connection,
> > that does not give anyone the right to "walk away" with an organization's
> > domain. As I mentioned earlier, I am not a fan of Rubens's but if I thought
> > up and constructed an organization like NYLXS ad invested the sweat and
> > effort into maintaining that organization, I would definitely have strong
> > feelings about having that organization's domain held hostage. And Yes, I
> > do agree Ruben has pissed off many people during his lifetime and probably
> > will do so in the future so that's not a point of contention. In most
> > instances, Ruben and I do not see "eye to eye" and he does get annoying
> > loud and obnoxious and wrongfully so but I believe even you must admit that
> > NYLXS domain must be returned to the NYLXS ASAP and no one has the right to
> > impose conditions on the necessary circumstances in which it is to be
> > handed back over.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Evan M. Inker
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Marco Scoffier [mailto:marco4linux-at-earthlink.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:18 AM
> > To: hangout-at-nylxs.com
> > Subject: [hangout] NYLXS, NYFairUse
> >
> >
> >
> > I am exhausted by discussing this.
> > So much so that I chose not to come to the meeting tonight.
> >
> > I have already suffered two explosions by Ruben when I hinted that I did
> > not necessarily believe him just because he yells really loudly.
> >
> > I would like to point out that Brett has been blackhole routed from the
> > NYLXS servers for at least a couple of months, so there is little hope that
> > any of us can get his version of events, and now Jay has been blocked from
> > posting to hangout. Both of these acts have been individual decisions by
> > Ruben, as was the mail bombing of the wwwacs list which got us knocked off
> > the net last year.
> >
> > While I think it is important and efficient that the president act on his
> > own in some instances, I think a strong involved board is the only way of
> > maintaining any semblance of democracy.
> >
> > While Ruben's brash actions are sometimes exactly what is needed for
> > bringing an important point to light (such as this past week with the
> > egovos), they can unchecked leave many people with serious reservations
> > about participating in this group. And thus deprive NYLXS of what it needs
> > most: active members and a strong board.
> >
> > I call to stop the censure of Brett and Jay, at least to get their side of
> > the story. I ask to stop the allegations that they are going to attack a
> > meeting and that the added security of a bouncer or security guard is
> > needed to protect our meetings from them.
> >
> > At the same time I fear the scene of a confrontation between these three
> > parties. I saw Ruben explode at the King's James install feast, as well as
> > this past Sunday, and on the phone recently when I had first challenged him
> > on this.
> >
> > The more I become involved in this organisation, the more its actions
> > reflect upon me. I cannot continue to function in this organisation with
> > good heart and conscience until these issues have been cleared up.
> >
> > --Marco
> > ____________________________
> > New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> > Fair Use -
> > because it's either fair use or useless....
> >
> >
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> > ____________________________
> > New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> > Fair Use -
> > because it's either fair use or useless....
>
> ____________________________
> New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
--
__________________________
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__________________________
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____________________________
New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
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