MESSAGE
| DATE | 2003-02-09 |
| FROM | Ruben Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Subject: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: eGovOS conference in D.C.; I'm not attending that
|
My first election was with Abe Beam for Esposito's political machine
cira 1976 and goes all the way to Today on all three levels of Government.
iIt involves primary, municipal, statewide and national politics.
iI did and still do what ever needs to be done.
I took off a few years for military service.
Politics in the beltway is not real. The voters are at home.
Convince the voters or making it in their intersts, and you can
influence muscle. This is why the Washington Establishment gets
caught with it's pant down every few years in Congress. Last year
was an example, the Contract with America is another.
The bottom line is that organization, and political unity is what most
often wins. Compromise only when you need to swap political capital,
and preferably with a friendly camp. Keep your message slimple and clear
and get out the vote. Keep everyone on the same page. Feed your constients
and your politicaly active workers.
Never compromise with MS. It's a waste of time. And clearly, as you have as much
experience as your saying, then you know that argueing about politics and winning
politically are two differnet things completely
Ruben
On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 07:06:39PM +0000, Stanley A. Klein wrote:
>
> About how many political campaigns I've been in, lets see. My first
> campaign was in 1956 for Adlai Stevenson. The only one I've missed since
> then was in 1960, when I was returning from 6 months Army active duty for
> training. I called the Kennedy people to volunteer and they said they had
> all the help they needed. From 1962 to 1967 we were involved in every
> election that took place in Baltimore County, where we lived at the time.
> We moved to Rockville in the late 1960's and have been involved in most
> Rockville elections since then, and all of them since about 1985. That's a
> ("nonpartisan") election every two years unrelated to the Presidential or
> the state/county "off year" long ballot election. Either I or my wife have
> been a precinct chair in our area (for the regular "partisan" elections)
> since about 1968. It's hard to figure individual campaigns, because we are
> usually involved in several in any given election.
>
> We've won some and lost some through the years. We usually do reasonably
> well in our precinct, and have contributed from time to time at higher
> levels, such as campaign strategy, organizing, writing position papers,
> helping staff the campaign headquarters, and similar things. We've
> occasionally had some big wins.
>
> If you will give me the basis of your count of 40 election campaigns
> (primary, general, municipal, and whether you are counting elections or
> candidates/issues) I might be able to challenge your assertion that you
> have more campaign experience than anyone else on the list.
>
> The rest of what you have to say sounds like it is peculiar to New York.
> We used to have someone here who had been very active in New York politics.
> She lived in senior housing in our precinct. She knew Koch, Cuomo,
> Guliani, and a lot of the other New York people, and kept in touch with
> them. However, she died a year or two ago, so I can't show her your email
> and ask her opinion. But I've never heard that kind of talk in Maryland.
>
> Lobbying is different from campaigning, and aside from a lot of work on
> local issues through the years, I have to admit that my experience is
> limited lobbying at the state and federal levels. I wouldn't be surprised
> if lobbying in New York is a lot more confrontational than it is elsewhere.
> You need to be careful applying New York tactics in Washington. It is
> likely to seem too heavy handed and confrontational in the Washington
> culture. And that is likely to turn people off and have the opposite
> effect from the one you intended.
>
> I don't need to read history books to learn about politics, although it
> sometimes is fun to get a different perspective. I've been steeped in
> politics ever since my father took me to the Fifth Regiment Armory in
> Baltimore to hear a campaign speech by Harry Truman when I was about 10
> years old. I've seen political machines come and go. I've also seen
> drastic changes in the world of politics. And, BTW, I'm somewhat of a
> CSPAN junkie.
>
> I think Tony may not have been in many campaigns, but I'm sure he knows
> something about lobbying and inside Washington politics. Some of what he
> is doing may not work in the New York culture, but it is the way to do
> things here.
>
> I'll read your articles when I have a chance. In the mean time, I think
> you better do a lot of careful thinking before you pull some of the kinds
> of stunts people have been talking about to undermine the conference.
> That's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.
>
>
> Stan Klein
>
>
>
> At 09:26 PM 2/8/2003 -0500, Ruben Safir wrote:
> >> Since you seem to be rather ignorant of politics and how things are done in
> >> the real world, let me be more graphic in talking about the uproar and
> >> firestorm I mentioned in my previous posting. We want the headline in the
> >> press to be " 'Shared source is lipstick on a pig' respond attendees to
> >> Microsoft position in an open debate at a free/open-source conference."
> >>
> >
> >I'm reluctant to move this one step further, which would make it a flame war,
> >but I'll tell you this. You are flat out wrongf about my political
> experience
> >and I'm certain that I have more experience in politics than any single
> person
> >on this list.
> >
> >Your brand of 'real world' debate wouldn't get you past a PTA meeting let
> alone
> >something as imporant and contriversal as this.
> >
> >Tell me, how many political campains have you worked with?
> >
> >I've been an active participant on over 40 election campains.
> >None of them remotely sound like anything your talking about. Perhaps
> >you should actually observe a political campain or two before dictating to
> >someone with real experience in these matters as to what is proper
> politically,
> >and what is not.
> >
> >Unlike in Washington, we in NY and weare not restricted by our job
> description and federal
> >law from participating in campains. We are allowed to support openly
> canidates running for office.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> We don't want the headlines to be "Academic freedom is OK for controversial
> >> racists but not for Microsoft," "Whatever happened to the first amendment
> >> -- George Washington University charged with bias against unpopular views
> >> at conference," "Microsoft is right, Free Software is UnAmerican charge
> >> Microsoft supporters in Congress after Microsoft denied right to speak at
> >> free/open-source software conference," "Government employees ordered to
> >> withdraw from conference committee and drop involvement with Free Software
> >> after controversy over rejection of Microsoft as speaker at conference."
> >>
> >> Does that make things more clear?
> >
> >
> >It makes it clear to me that politically, your what we describe as a
> 'coward'. And THAT
> >is proper political jaargon used in evaluating campainers in the party who
> concede to your
> >adversary without rational reason. 'Cowards' are systematically weeded
> out of the party
> >by 'henchmen' because they destroy party solidarty and have a high
> probibly of morphing into
> >'traitors'.
> >
> >None of your hypothetical headlines would ever be published with a
> competetent polical
> >leadership on the scene.
> >
> >
> >
> > Oh - that's right... in this case there is none!
> >
> >> I understand that Tony Stanco spoke at LinuxWorld to the effect that the
> >> Free Software and Open-Source software communities need to learn how to
> >> lobby in Washington to counter Microsoft's big-bucks lobbying efforts.
> >
> >Yeah Yeah, what you didn't read was my article in the Linux Journal on
> grassroots
> >organizing. Tony, who has never run a single political campain in his
> life, is just
> >flat out wrong. And I smell a 'Rat', which is another COMMON political
> lexicon in
> >'real world' politics. 'Rat' is someone who sells out or leaks
> information to the
> >opposition for unscrupules reasons.
> >
> >
> >> This discussion proves to me that this community has an enormous amount of
> >> learning to do before it capable of becoming as effective at lobbying as it
> >> needs to become.
> >
> >Yeah it does. And this lerning curve starts with YOU.
> >
> >Frankly, you don't KNOW how to win. Now you have two choices. You can sulk
> >and take personal jabs at me, or you can become self-reflective and admit
> >that you don't KNOW how to run a real campain, and you can start to become
> >educated about the 'Real World' of politics by reading this:
> >
> >http://www.nylxs.com/pathfromhere.html
> >
> >It wouldn't hurt for you to read about Robert Moses, Tamany Hall, Mayor Daily
> >and John F Kenedy. You can also learn something from the original George
> Bush
> >campain, the Contract with America and the rise of Union Labor in American
> >Politics.
> >
> >Let me drop one last clue on you... it's a good thing Democracy. It means
> that
> >political factions don't shoot each other to determine who gets to be king.
> >But it does nothing to change the actual nature of politics....
> >
> >
> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Are you suggesting that in order for the conference to be legitimate a
> >> >> university and a conference committee that includes several government
> >> >> employees should deny a speaker from Microsoft the right to present the
> >> >> Microsoft position in debate before an audience almost guaranteed to be
> >> >> packed with active competitors and adversaries of Microsoft?
> >> >>
> >> >> Can you imagine for a moment the uproar and political firestorm that
> would
> >> >> result from such a situation?
> >> >
> >> >Fine, as long as it takes place out of the room and as long as they get my
> >> name
> >> >and the URL for the Free Software Chamber of Commerce right before they
> >> attack it
> >> >
> >> >In any event, it's not a debate. If it's a debate on Free Software versus
> >> >Propriatory software, say so on the website so that everyone knows this
> and
> >> >is prepared going in.
> >> >
> >> >Overwise, it's a conference on the reasons and uses of Open Source and
> >> Free Software
> >> >for government and Microsoft doesn't qualify under EITHER category.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> As an attendee and participant in this and related events, let me assure
> >> >> you that the event does not merely pretend to be part of our
> community, it
> >> >> is part of our community. And the spirit of our community is not
> betrayed.
> >> >
> >> >If this event includes Microsoft, it betrays the Community. Bayonne was
> >> imediately
> >> >affected by the presense of Microsoft at LWE in NY by denying it a first
> >> place award
> >> >and the press it deserved.
> >> >
> >> >That translates to food on dinner plates for my members ... period.
> >
> >--
> >__________________________
> >Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> >__________________________
> >DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com
> >
> >http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
> >http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
> >http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> >http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and
> articles from around the net
> >http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
> >
> >1-718-382-0585
> >
> >
>
> To stop the messages from coming see http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/appl/fairuse/gone.html
> ____________________________
> New Yorkers for Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
1-718-382-0585
____________________________
New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
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