MESSAGE
| DATE | 2003-02-08 |
| FROM | From: "Stanley A. Klein"
|
| SUBJECT | Subject: [hangout] Re: eGovOS conference in D.C.; I'm not attending that
|
About how many political campaigns I've been in, lets see. My first
campaign was in 1956 for Adlai Stevenson. The only one I've missed since
then was in 1960, when I was returning from 6 months Army active duty for
training. I called the Kennedy people to volunteer and they said they had
all the help they needed. From 1962 to 1967 we were involved in every
election that took place in Baltimore County, where we lived at the time.
We moved to Rockville in the late 1960's and have been involved in most
Rockville elections since then, and all of them since about 1985. That's a
("nonpartisan") election every two years unrelated to the Presidential or
the state/county "off year" long ballot election. Either I or my wife have
been a precinct chair in our area (for the regular "partisan" elections)
since about 1968. It's hard to figure individual campaigns, because we are
usually involved in several in any given election.
We've won some and lost some through the years. We usually do reasonably
well in our precinct, and have contributed from time to time at higher
levels, such as campaign strategy, organizing, writing position papers,
helping staff the campaign headquarters, and similar things. We've
occasionally had some big wins.
If you will give me the basis of your count of 40 election campaigns
(primary, general, municipal, and whether you are counting elections or
candidates/issues) I might be able to challenge your assertion that you
have more campaign experience than anyone else on the list.
The rest of what you have to say sounds like it is peculiar to New York.
We used to have someone here who had been very active in New York politics.
She lived in senior housing in our precinct. She knew Koch, Cuomo,
Guliani, and a lot of the other New York people, and kept in touch with
them. However, she died a year or two ago, so I can't show her your email
and ask her opinion. But I've never heard that kind of talk in Maryland.
Lobbying is different from campaigning, and aside from a lot of work on
local issues through the years, I have to admit that my experience is
limited lobbying at the state and federal levels. I wouldn't be surprised
if lobbying in New York is a lot more confrontational than it is elsewhere.
You need to be careful applying New York tactics in Washington. It is
likely to seem too heavy handed and confrontational in the Washington
culture. And that is likely to turn people off and have the opposite
effect from the one you intended.
I don't need to read history books to learn about politics, although it
sometimes is fun to get a different perspective. I've been steeped in
politics ever since my father took me to the Fifth Regiment Armory in
Baltimore to hear a campaign speech by Harry Truman when I was about 10
years old. I've seen political machines come and go. I've also seen
drastic changes in the world of politics. And, BTW, I'm somewhat of a
CSPAN junkie.
I think Tony may not have been in many campaigns, but I'm sure he knows
something about lobbying and inside Washington politics. Some of what he
is doing may not work in the New York culture, but it is the way to do
things here.
I'll read your articles when I have a chance. In the mean time, I think
you better do a lot of careful thinking before you pull some of the kinds
of stunts people have been talking about to undermine the conference.
That's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Stan Klein
At 09:26 PM 2/8/2003 -0500, Ruben Safir wrote:
>> Since you seem to be rather ignorant of politics and how things are done in
>> the real world, let me be more graphic in talking about the uproar and
>> firestorm I mentioned in my previous posting. We want the headline in the
>> press to be " 'Shared source is lipstick on a pig' respond attendees to
>> Microsoft position in an open debate at a free/open-source conference."
>>
>
>I'm reluctant to move this one step further, which would make it a flame war,
>but I'll tell you this. You are flat out wrongf about my political
experience
>and I'm certain that I have more experience in politics than any single
person
>on this list.
>
>Your brand of 'real world' debate wouldn't get you past a PTA meeting let
alone
>something as imporant and contriversal as this.
>
>Tell me, how many political campains have you worked with?
>
>I've been an active participant on over 40 election campains.
>None of them remotely sound like anything your talking about. Perhaps
>you should actually observe a political campain or two before dictating to
>someone with real experience in these matters as to what is proper
politically,
>and what is not.
>
>Unlike in Washington, we in NY and weare not restricted by our job
description and federal
>law from participating in campains. We are allowed to support openly
canidates running for office.
>
>
>
>
>> We don't want the headlines to be "Academic freedom is OK for controversial
>> racists but not for Microsoft," "Whatever happened to the first amendment
>> -- George Washington University charged with bias against unpopular views
>> at conference," "Microsoft is right, Free Software is UnAmerican charge
>> Microsoft supporters in Congress after Microsoft denied right to speak at
>> free/open-source software conference," "Government employees ordered to
>> withdraw from conference committee and drop involvement with Free Software
>> after controversy over rejection of Microsoft as speaker at conference."
>>
>> Does that make things more clear?
>
>
>It makes it clear to me that politically, your what we describe as a
'coward'. And THAT
>is proper political jaargon used in evaluating campainers in the party who
concede to your
>adversary without rational reason. 'Cowards' are systematically weeded
out of the party
>by 'henchmen' because they destroy party solidarty and have a high
probibly of morphing into
>'traitors'.
>
>None of your hypothetical headlines would ever be published with a
competetent polical
>leadership on the scene.
>
>
>
> Oh - that's right... in this case there is none!
>
>> I understand that Tony Stanco spoke at LinuxWorld to the effect that the
>> Free Software and Open-Source software communities need to learn how to
>> lobby in Washington to counter Microsoft's big-bucks lobbying efforts.
>
>Yeah Yeah, what you didn't read was my article in the Linux Journal on
grassroots
>organizing. Tony, who has never run a single political campain in his
life, is just
>flat out wrong. And I smell a 'Rat', which is another COMMON political
lexicon in
>'real world' politics. 'Rat' is someone who sells out or leaks
information to the
>opposition for unscrupules reasons.
>
>
>> This discussion proves to me that this community has an enormous amount of
>> learning to do before it capable of becoming as effective at lobbying as it
>> needs to become.
>
>Yeah it does. And this lerning curve starts with YOU.
>
>Frankly, you don't KNOW how to win. Now you have two choices. You can sulk
>and take personal jabs at me, or you can become self-reflective and admit
>that you don't KNOW how to run a real campain, and you can start to become
>educated about the 'Real World' of politics by reading this:
>
>http://www.nylxs.com/pathfromhere.html
>
>It wouldn't hurt for you to read about Robert Moses, Tamany Hall, Mayor Daily
>and John F Kenedy. You can also learn something from the original George
Bush
>campain, the Contract with America and the rise of Union Labor in American
>Politics.
>
>Let me drop one last clue on you... it's a good thing Democracy. It means
that
>political factions don't shoot each other to determine who gets to be king.
>But it does nothing to change the actual nature of politics....
>
>
>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Are you suggesting that in order for the conference to be legitimate a
>> >> university and a conference committee that includes several government
>> >> employees should deny a speaker from Microsoft the right to present the
>> >> Microsoft position in debate before an audience almost guaranteed to be
>> >> packed with active competitors and adversaries of Microsoft?
>> >>
>> >> Can you imagine for a moment the uproar and political firestorm that
would
>> >> result from such a situation?
>> >
>> >Fine, as long as it takes place out of the room and as long as they get my
>> name
>> >and the URL for the Free Software Chamber of Commerce right before they
>> attack it
>> >
>> >In any event, it's not a debate. If it's a debate on Free Software versus
>> >Propriatory software, say so on the website so that everyone knows this
and
>> >is prepared going in.
>> >
>> >Overwise, it's a conference on the reasons and uses of Open Source and
>> Free Software
>> >for government and Microsoft doesn't qualify under EITHER category.
>> >
>> >
>> >> As an attendee and participant in this and related events, let me assure
>> >> you that the event does not merely pretend to be part of our
community, it
>> >> is part of our community. And the spirit of our community is not
betrayed.
>> >
>> >If this event includes Microsoft, it betrays the Community. Bayonne was
>> imediately
>> >affected by the presense of Microsoft at LWE in NY by denying it a first
>> place award
>> >and the press it deserved.
>> >
>> >That translates to food on dinner plates for my members ... period.
>
>--
>__________________________
>Brooklyn Linux Solutions
>__________________________
>DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com
>
>http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
>http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
>http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
>http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and
articles from around the net
>http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
>
>1-718-382-0585
>
>
____________________________
New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
|
|
