MESSAGE
| DATE | 2003-02-07 |
| FROM | Ruben I Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [Marketing] Re: [hangout] Re: [Marketing] Open Source for National and Local eGovernment Programs in the U.S. and EU
|
It's not a matter of Open Source versus Free Software. It's a simple issue of wrong and
right.
The labels Free Software and Open Source just clouds the issue.
Both communitiees have worked hard at building and consstructing a viable
core of software and digital systems which enables uers to have primary ownership
of their digital systems, and to open the market to fair competition, and broad
education.
Some people have been in such a rush for self-agrandizement, or looking for quick and easy
payoffs, have now noticed that Free Software is a creditable market. It's become a crediable market
because it has nurtured a development community and a user community which is capable of producing
services which are unencumbered by monopolistic practices and licensing. Open Office is an important
piece of that freed market.
When faced with an early threat to an opening of commercial competition in a truly free market,
Microsoft attacked the largest instruement of that freedom, the FSF's GPL.
The GPL has protected the Linux Kernal and the bulk of the GNU and Free System for nearly a decade
at this point. While during this same time period, Microsoft has been convicted TWICE of anti-competitive
practices by twisting its lock on the desktop to destroy others efforts.
Included in this was not just Netscape, but Borland, Foxpro, Lotus and dozens of other competitors.
At the NYC 'Linux World Expo', Microsoft had begun to change its stragergy to destroy the efforts of both
the Free Software community and the Open Source community. Its taken on the jargon of Free Software, but
works on Digital Control software, known as Digital Rights Management, or 'trusted computing'. It now promotes
its 'Shared Source Initiative'. Unlike many efforts (but not all) at IBM, or Sun with Open Office, or other vendors
who have taken a dabble with Free Software, the MS initiative does NOTHING for the community other than help destroy it.
Unlike the Mozilla project, it doesn't give the community rights to the code.
Unlike IBM's work on mainframes, it doesn't donate to the working code base.
Unlike Suns donation of Open Office, it doesn't fill any of the communities need with
a quality product where the source has been donated to the user base for improvement.
What it does is banter around a huge number of important words, such as 'community', 'collaberation' and
'code review', but it obstructs true unconstrained development of critical communications infrastructure.
It still prevents a student from the ghetto from picking up a system and learning from the community, enabling him
until he can contribute back to our shared co-existence.
It is still a noose.
And then at the NY LWE, Microsoft carried home a first place award for 'Best System Integration Software' for the
Unix tool set Microsoft produced for NFS and other common GNU/Linux protocals. This was bogus for 2 reasons.
First, ONLY Microsoft culd create the tools they did for Windows as they did it, because, THEY OWN THE DAMN CODEBASE
and can debug both halves of the problem. In fact, they rewrote parts of the Windows OS to make it run smooth.
Secondly, someone, in this case Bayonne, lost extreamly valuable publicity for their telecommunications software, which
they could use to get more business, write more TRUELY FREE or OPEN Software, which everyone in the community benifits.
Now, we have a running trend here. Tony Stanco, from the Georgetown Universty in Washington is promoting Microsoft
at the egov convention. Tony Stanco has sepeately been banging heads with those both IN the OS movement and in the FSF
movement.... not because he doiesn't get it....he can't be that stupid.
It's because he doesn't CARE. It's ALL about him. He doesn't give a damn about the people slaving to develop
Free Software systems, and who need government contracts to feed their families. All he cares about is that HE
looks good.
Microsoft wants to teahc the government about the advantages of Free Software... 'welcome aboard'.
It's WRONG. It's more wrong than what happened with the Desktop Consortium convention which took place this
week. And everyone with a conscious should be avoiding this event and distancing themselves until Stanco
flies straight.
Ruben
On 2003.02.06 23:08 Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> I'm a real basic OOo user. Could someone post the basic facts and players in
> this dispute? Who's Tony? Thanks for the info.
>
> On Thursday 06 February 2003 19:58, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > on 2/6/03 7:51 PM, Ruben I Safir at ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com wrote:
> > > I don't trust Tony. If we were to go down there, it would be to do a
> > > formal protest.
> > >
> > > Attacking powerful enemies to coat-tail on them is one of my favorite
> > > strategies, but
> > > I saw what happened at LWE expo and in should be our home turf and the
> > > rules are different.
> > >
> > > Their should have been protests at the Microsoft Booth at LWE, but I was
> > > too busy. Instead, IDG turned it
> > > into a MS PR event.
> > >
> > > Tony is doing the same thing, and it's my belief that Tony is on the
> > > take.
> >
> > Well, personal animus aside, I think it would be useful for the members of
> > this list to understand what the issues are, what the differences are,
> > philosophical and practical, b/w OS and FS. I can point people to articles,
> > but it would be great to have your slant.
> >
> > -louis
> >
> > > Ruben
> > >
> > >
> > > Thus speaketh the CEO of the NY Times
> > >
> > >>> No. Let us go and show our better stuff and point out to everyone the
> > >
> > > gross lies of Microsoft.
> > >
> > > If we go the press will report what we say. Some reporters may partly
> > > fall for some Microsoft lies, but if we do not go, almost every reporter
> > > will present the worst, stupidest, and most vicious Microsoft lies as
> > > being "simply the facts".<<
> > >
> > > On 2003.02.06 22:11 Ruben I Safir wrote:
> > >> This program is not being supported by the Free Software community and
> > >> is currenly being boycotted
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> See forwarded message:
> > >>
> > >> Fundementally,
> > >>
> > >> Both the Free Software Camp and the Open Source Camp are based on
> > >> different views of what forge a Free Community of collaberators and
> > >> users. While differences
> > >> exist, which are substantial, and worthy debate, doesn't change the fact
> > >> thay movements put
> > >> community and people above code and systems. These systems must serve
> > >> PEOPLE and the systems
> > >> MUST encourge the enabling of individuals through the systems we create
> > >> and use.
> > >>
> > >> Microsoft is an anti-competitive corperation GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY of
> > >> destroying
> > >> individuals and seperating them from the fruit of their work through
> > >> unfair competitition
> > >> and stiffling peoples right to innovation. Microsoft is DIRECTLY
> > >> responsibly for undermining
> > >> peoples right to innovate and compete in a free market.
> > >>
> > >> That company should have been decommissioned long ago for anti-trust
> > >> activities, and I'll
> > >> be damned if their blood should be on my hands. There objective is to
> > >> destroy the community
> > >> and it's really as simple as that.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> In addition, Microsoft has been negligent in their services and they
> > >> have done huge damage
> > >> to the economy and they threaten national security. Just last week they
> > >> were solely responsible
> > >> for nearly bringing the internet to a halt, doing seriou damage to Bank
> > >> America and the national
> > >> banking system.
> > >>
> > >> They should not have been allowed at LWE and they certainly shouldn't be
> > >> allowed in any
> > >> 'Open Source' or Free Software convention.
> > >>
> > >> I don't have enough starving qualified Free Software developers,
> > >> business people and
> > >> system administrators? But now I need to compete with an illegal
> > >> monopoly at a convention
> > >> designed to promote Free Software in Government!!
> > >>
> > >> WTF.
> > >>
> > >> Tony should be investigated for criminal activities in this regard, and
> > >> the sesion SHOULD
> > >> be boycotted.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> NY Fair Use supports a Boycott of this events and NYLXS is willing to
> > >> support an active protest
> > >> at the event of Tony and Microsoft.
> > >>
> > >> Ruben
> > >>
> > >> On 2003.02.06 18:28 David Sugar wrote:
> > >>>> primary gripe is as David states the ideal that "shared source" is
> > >>>> being put in a light that to people who are coming to learn about our
> > >>>> community will simply think that its part of our community. When it
> > >>>> clearly is not. On top of that there is little representation from the
> > >>>> free software community which makes it even worse.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -Derek
> > >>>
> > >>> Derek, yes, I that is precisely the issue that I found unacceptable in
> > >>> Tony's
> > >>> conference, in that he is permitting Microsoft specifically to promote
> > >>> "shared source" licensing as ethical equivilent to or as "another form"
> > >>> of "Open Source" licensing, and by extension, related to Free Software,
> > >>> and thereby gives it the appearence of ethical legitimacy that it does
> > >>> not deserve. I thought shortening this a bit to what I found most
> > >>> relevant would
> > >>> help Richard understand more clearly what has happened and what our
> > >>> concerns are since I recall he got cc'd in the middle of an already
> > >>> very long thread by Ruben and may have missed this.
> > >>>
> > >>> I know Ruben has additional concerns that are equally valid in regard
> > >>> to Tony's eGovOS conference, in that it is also being used to
> > >>> commercially promote OSS to governments (and in potential govt
> > >>> contracts) and that as a result it will give the false impression that
> > >>> Microsoft Shared Source is another OSS/FS license and perhaps also that
> > >>> there is no commercial difference between free and propetary software.
> > >>> If I mistook anyone's view I
> > >>> appologize, I was simply trying to summerize what I gathered from what
> > >>> I heard for Richard to better follow what we are discussing.
> > >>>
> > >>> David
> > >>
> > >> On 2003.02.06 19:38 Jacqueline McNally wrote:
> > >>> Open Source for National and Local eGovernment Programs in the U.S. and
> > >>> EU Washington, DC, USA, March. 17 - 19, 2003.
> > >>>
> > >>> "This conference is designed to discuss best practices, raise awareness
> > >>> and the share experiences among policy makers from the U.S. and Europe.
> > >>> The conference will draw participants from local, national and
> > >>> international organizations from the public, private and academic
> > >>> sectors."
> > >>>
> > >>> Registration is free and preliminary agenda is available:
> > >>> http://www.egovos.org/march-2003/index.html
> > >>>
> > >>> Any OOo people in Washington planning to go? It looks pretty full on
> > >>> with lots of interesting speakers.
> > >>>
> > >>> All the best
> > >>> Jacqueline McNally
> > >>> http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/users/zenryaku/
> > >>>
> > >>> Community Contact, Australia/New Zealand
> > >>> OpenOffice.org Marketing Project
> > >>> (www.openoffice.org)
> > >>>
> > >>> Are you a computer angel? (www.ca.asn.au)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe-at-marketing.openoffice.org
> > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help-at-marketing.openoffice.org
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> __________________________
> > >> Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > >> __________________________
> > >> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com
> > >>
> > >> http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
> > >> http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
> > >> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> > >> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and
> > >> articles from around the net
> > >> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown
> > >> Brooklyn....
> > >>
> > >> 1-718-382-0585
> > >> ____________________________
> > >> New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> > >> Fair Use -
> > >> because it's either fair use or useless....
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe-at-marketing.openoffice.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help-at-marketing.openoffice.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe-at-marketing.openoffice.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help-at-marketing.openoffice.org
>
>
--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
1-718-382-0585
____________________________
New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
|
|
