MESSAGE
| DATE | 2002-10-17 |
| FROM | Ruben Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [hangout] Re: hangout problem
|
It would be just easier for Brett to surrender the Domains.
In any event, their are two method of disipline in the Constition,
one by general membership and the other by the board.
BTW Vinnie, your not just a paid member, but a voting member aas well, with
the required volunteer hours.
I have to lok again at it for the specifics, but the board has the right to
take summary action in banning a member.
In this case, Brett's not even a member because he never paid the dues.
The request for the Domains is not even displinary matter, or one I can't just
make, even without the board. However, i felt that due to the seriousness
of Brett's actions previously in regards to the class, AND the refusal to
return the Domains, AND a refusal to stop the alternate mailing list, AND
now his attempts to force the list on the membership by forcing a route which
the server would accept since his is blocked, AND his blatent attempts at undermineding
the reputation of the organization, and the damage he did to the FSI, that he should
be also BARRED, and legal action should be taken.
As terms of Legal Action, I was not willing to take such a drastic step without
consulting with the board, although any expense over $500 needs at least 2 board members
to sign on to, or maybe it was three.. Again I have to look.
And in that regard to the domain name, nobody on the board is willing to allow
the loss of control of this asset to anyone who blatantly disregards the elected
government of the organzation.
NOBODY, would be allowed to do with without a response by the organization.
Amd Especially not Brett.
The hearing would be a chance for Brett to explain his position in person to the
Board since he so far is refusing to talk to any of the members of the board about
the problem, accept he is harrassing poor Joe Maffia about a problem Brett create with
his mail servers restrictions and his efforts to force his mailing list on us.
However, we have no rules for hearings, but I think it's important, as NYLXS is an
experiment in Democracy, too create precident for Due Process prior to displinary action.
But I do not believe that it's constructive to be an open hearing. I think it IS a good
idea for us to record the proceeding and make it available to the voting membership upon
request.
It' kind of exciting isn't it? We've attmepted to create a Democratically run, responsible
organization, and Brett's renagade and harnful activities gives us a real chance to practice
real Democracy. Somebody should film this whole thing for a High School Civics class!
NYLXS doesn't just talk Democracy, but it actually IS a Democracy, and right now it's
being threatened by an external Dictorial Autocrat who has behaved with disregard for
the Democracy we created.
Now Brett has been trying to turn this into something peronal between me and him,
and he's 'lovingly' interested in my wellbeing and what's good for the group. Well
he may be looking at this as being personal, BUT WE do not. It's completely an
organizational problem. Brett just has to hand over the Domain's to the board.
I shouldn't haved had to ask this twice, let alone 20 times over 3 months.
Disiplinary actions is another story. Right now the board is content to try to
negotiate to get back our Domain. For the record, this is against my advice.
But I'm willing to bet good ole Brett is not going to let me down and just contunue
to emulate Moa Tsi Tong, and the board will learn it's lesson about Brett, and then
move for a more forceful action. In my opinion, Brett will not reliquish the Domains
to us until legally compelled to, or until we do something hugely drastic like
picket his house very noisely for a few weeks and blanket the area with pamphlets
publisizing the power grab to all his nieghbors.
And then we have other potential problems in the background if the students demand a refund.
I'm out the money I extended for the class. Dustin never paid for it. The other two students
did. So we terminated Brett, not that it mattered since he's hijacked the class and humiliated
the program, and he's already doing whatever he likes. Of course, he claims the class
hijacked him, despite the fact that we were in contact about the class inbetween the week
where he refused to live up to his obligation and the week prior. But there is at least a
fair share of money involved. Normal, we never ever refund students. So potentially,
there is another shoe to drop.
Then again, I could be completely wrong and tomorrow he just assigns them to one of the
officers. But I, do not see this as likely. It's just not his nature.
As for the last thing, of course anyone can suggest anything to the board, and
a member, all that much more. You just posted it to the list, which is completely
appropriate. And I'm willing to have further conversation about this.
I'm not open to having it completely open, but if he agrees to come to a hearing,
I would consider allowing you specifically record it. I hope, Vinnie, that you
might consider running for office in April when we have new elections.
Ruben
On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 11:19:58PM -0400, vin wrote:
> I sat this out until now. I'm a paid member. I agree that we need to resolve
> this.
>
> 1. Is the proposed hearing open to all members?
>
> 2. Given the problem we have with the 7/17 Commerce Committee meeting, and the
> Commerce Committee selectively editing the record, I propose that the meeting
> be recorded by someone who knows shorthand if possible, and a transcription
> be provided to members.
>
> 3. If no one who knows shorthand is available, I propose that the hearing be
> audio recorded. Since I am also a privacy advocate, and this audio recording
> suggestion that I (yeah, I know, shocker) am making, I propose that the audio
> recording be transcribed after the hearing, and after the recording and
> transcription is compared by two neutral board members and agreement is
> reached that the transcription is accurate, the audio recording then be
> destroyed. The two subjects of the hearing will be given the opportunity to
> hear the audio and review the transcripts. They may object to the accuracy
> finding, and their objection, if any, will be added to the transcript. If
> their is no objection, no additional comments will be added. If there is an
> objection, a NYLXS regular member chosen by the neutral board members will
> also compare the two records, and their opinion will be noted on the
> transcript after the objections are noted.
>
> 4. Providing a transcription of the hearing will afford all members the
> opportunity to know what has transpired, even if they are unable to attend
> the hearing for any reason.
>
> 5. If no one volunteers to write the transcript, I'll do it (if there is no
> objection). It may take me a few days.
>
> 6. If there is a Secretary of NYLXS, I propose that the Secretary is in charge
> of the above.
>
> 7. If a regular member may not make the above suggestions, I ask a board
> member to make the above request.
>
> Vin.
>
> On Wednesday 16 October 2002 21:30, Dimitar Georgievski wrote:
> > I would go for that too. The sooner we resolve this issue the better for
> > everyone.
> >
> > dimitar
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com [mailto:owner-hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com]On
> > Behalf Of Joe Grastara
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 5:04 PM
> > To: Ruben Safir
> > Cc: joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com; NYLXS
> > Subject: Re: [hangout] Re: hangout problem
> >
> >
> >
> > I think a hearing, so to speak would be a good way to address the issue.
> >
> > -Joe G
> >
> > On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 04:53 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> > > How would you feel, baring that not all the memmbers seem to be able
> > > to get to him, that we meet one evening next week and invite him to
> > > tetify
> > > to the board.
> > >
> > > I see the DNS entry for NYLXS.org is at least gone, o that's some
> > > progres.
> > >
> > > If he's going to be a member, and he's not currently, then he needs to
> > > understand
> > > and respect the board, the institutions, and the charter.
> > >
> > > This would give him chance to show that he's willing to abide by the
> > > board in
> > > these matters.
> > >
> > > If he's willing to abide to the boards decision, then I'm fine.
> > >
> > > Ruben
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 04:09:34PM -0400, joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >> I have not heard from Brett as of 1600 hrs today. I will call him
> > >> tonight. Do
> > >> you have any other number for him other than the cell number you sent
> > >> me
> > >> yesterday?
> > >>
> > >> Joe
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:04:22 -0400 Ruben I Safir
> > >>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>> Any luck on this
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 2002.10.15 12:48 joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com
> > >>>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>> Brett
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm not interested in moderating between you
> > >>>
> > >>> and Ruben. You guys are old enogh
> > >>>
> > >>>> to work out your own differences. I am
> > >>>
> > >>> interested in working out a resolution
> > >>>
> > >>>> for the nylxs.org domain.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If you give me your number I will be more
> > >>>
> > >>> than happy to speak with you and
> > >>>
> > >>>> figure something out. I looked in the phone
> > >>>
> > >>> book and did not find a number for
> > >>>
> > >>>> Brett Wynkoop in Brooklyn. I would appreciate
> > >>>
> > >>> your number or call me at one of
> > >>>
> > >>>> the numbers I supplied you with.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Joe
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:26:56 +0000 (GMT)
> > >>>
> > >>> wynkoop-at-wynn.com wrote:
> > >>>>> Joe-
> > >>>>> You have heard from Ruben in person.
> > >>>
> > >>> If
> > >>>
> > >>>>> you really want to moderate
> > >>>>> between Ruben and me you will at least give
> > >>>
> > >>> me
> > >>>
> > >>>>> the same courtesy. My
> > >>>>> number is available to anyone that really
> > >>>
> > >>> has
> > >>>
> > >>>>> an interest in talking to
> > >>>>> me.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -Brett
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> DRM is theft! We are the stakeholders!
> > >>>>> http://www.nyfairuse.org/
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ____________________________
> > >>>> New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> > >>>> Fair Use -
> > >>>> because it's either fair use or useless....
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> __________________________
> > >>> Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > >>> __________________________
> > >>> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS
> > >>> http://www.nyfairuse.org
> > >>>
> > >>> http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
> > >>> http://www.tmm.net
> > >
> > > --
> > > __________________________
> > > Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > > __________________________
> > > DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://www.nyfairuse.org
> > >
> > > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
> > > http://www.tmm.net <-- Happy Clients
> > > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> > > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories
> > > and articles from around the net
> > > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown
> > > Brooklyn....
> > >
> > > 1-718-382-0585
> > > ____________________________
> > > New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> > > Fair Use -
> > > because it's either fair use or useless....
> >
> > ____________________________
> > New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> > Fair Use -
> > because it's either fair use or useless....
> >
> > ____________________________
> > New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> > Fair Use -
> > because it's either fair use or useless....
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> drm is theft
> ~~~~~~~~~
> schools are the key
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> co-location servers for developers $60 per month includes hardware
> managed web sites $25 per month no setup
> self-managed web sites $10 per month no setup
> web sites for resellers/developers $5 per month no setup
> 14" color monitors $50
--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://www.nyfairuse.org
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.tmm.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
1-718-382-0585
____________________________
New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
|
|
