MESSAGE
| DATE | 2002-06-21 |
| FROM | Jay Sulzberger
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [hangout] IBM Space offers and Downtown Services
|
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ruben Safir wrote:
>
> That's something we would be willing to do since
> it's without hooks
>
> I don't personally have contact with them because I never
> tried to get space their. Maybe Jay can look into this
>
>
> Ruben
IBM has, can, and will do a lot to help many folk on this front.
oo--JS.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2002 at 10:26:01AM -0400, Ray Connolly wrote:
> > Think there is any chance they would donate a group of machines in a
> > classroom so prospective pupils wouldn't have to buy one to conform to the
> > class requirements?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ruben Safir [mailto:ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 5:31 PM
> > To: hangout-at-nylxs.com
> > Subject: [hangout] IBM Space offers and Downtown Services
> >
> >
> >
> > There is a bit of noise around the net about the IBM offer to create
> > a tech center and space for Free Software groups in NYC. I feel, that
> > in light of this offer to the community, we need to look at a number of
> > aspects of this development.
> >
> > First of all, I would like to extend my personal thanks to the folks at
> > IBM for their years of ssuport of a number of groups and for providing
> > meeting space in Midtown for NYLUG, GNUBIES, Deludge, and a bunch of
> > other software organization.
> >
> > There has been much speculation about the motives of IBM in making this
> > offer, and how atruistic IBM is towards GNU/Linux.
> >
> > It's my belief that IBM is indeed excited about the prospects for
> > GNU/Linux as a platform to peddle their propeitary software. I believe
> > that IBM sees a future for themselves on this platform, and that the
> > collegiate nature of Linux developement and Free Software Developement.
> > The management of IBM sees Linux strictly in terms of it's ability to
> > generate revenue (and rightly so). I see no moral dillema in terms of
> > IBM's management profit driven motivations to exploit Free Software,
> > and Free Softwares need to create Free and Open platforms for software
> > developement. In fact, I see just the opposite. I want everyone to
> > run Free Software because the moral foundation of the software makes
> > pratical buisness sense.
> >
> > However, I think that Free Software and our user groups, especially
> > NYLXS, have reason for concern about IBM's offer and IBM's current
> > business plan. We should not confuse IBM's agenda for our own. IBM,
> > as a business which provides IT services for enterprises and government,
> > can not accomplish many of the missions which NYLXS, as Free Software
> > institution feels it must provide to the general public. This is most
> > obvious in terms of general computer education, and empowerment programs.
> > These are not business goals (unless your business is a University) and
> > it still falls on the shoulders of organizations like NYLXS to promote
> > general computer education for the public at affordable prices.
> >
> > IBM's educational offering are IBM specific. This should be of no
> > suprise. They're offerings are peppered with WebShperei, Domino and
> > DB2 offering,
> > neither of
> > which, to my knowledge, are free software. IBM also has licensing issues.
> > Obviously, they are targeting the use of propietary server applications
> > as their bread and butter on the Free GNU/Linux platform. And they
> > very focused on using GNU/Linux as a means to sell more close sourced
> > propietary products.
> >
> > So while I deeply apreciate IBM's efforts to Free many projects,
> > and to help improve many Free Software products, IBM is not necessarily
> > an all encompassing guardian angle of free Software.
> >
> > It was not long ago that IBM was proposing spyware in every IDE hard drive.
> > And the company has shown to be at times very sensitive to critism on these
> > matters, clumsy in their aproach (read the left hand doesn't know the right
> > hand is trying to patent common software discoveries), and often as much
> > of a threat to Free Softwares necessary political agenda as a help.
> >
> > Putting these issues to the side for a moment, most importantly, our
> > Computing organizations must be very careful to remain finacially,
> > politcally,
> > and organizationally independent. We must be able to make decisions without
> > wondering how IBM is going to react. There is a real danger of over
> > dependence
> > on handout, not just form IBM, but from ANYONE, at the cost of the real work
> > needed to forge long lasting and effective organizations. This can not
> > happen.
> >
> > >From NYLXS's prospective, we've already made this error once, against my
> > better judgement, and I care not to do it again. NYLXS's membership is
> > dependent on volunteer hours, and we will only accept help of this nature
> > from members. Our members work hard and have a full stake in our success or
> >
> > failure. This has the benefit of changing the very nature of the
> > conversation
> > between the people we depend on to get things done, and the organizations
> > leader
> > which is asking to fill the man and materials to get these tasks finished.
> >
> > If IBM's personel and board of directors wish to pluck $40 on the table
> > and then donate 20 hours of volunteer hours with us, in the trenches, and
> > as full equal partners, we would love to then use their space for our
> > regular inservices, lectures and meetings. And while we might consider
> > doing a special event with IBM, I see nothing changing in the goal of
> > NYLXS to develope it's own educational space and facilities. We wouldn't
> > take a dime from them unless they are members.
> >
> > Lastly, I think IBM is making a big mistake be focusing on the server market
> > for Free Software. I would ask IBM to invest in the GNU Desktop and help
> > us fill in the gaps of common desktop applications needed to run business.
> > As long as Microsoft control the desktop, then we are all just grabbing the
> > tiger by the tail. Microsoft can end IBM's ability to provide services
> > tomorrow
> > if it chooses to. Until we have a large installation of Free Software
> > desktops,
> > then we are at the mercy of others.
> >
> >
> > Ruben
> >
> > --
> > __________________________
> >
> > Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > __________________________
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.brooklynonline.com -
> > For the love of Brooklyn http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development
> > in Free Software http://www.nyfairuse.org - The foundation of Democracy
> > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and
> > articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/mp3/dr.mp3 - Imagine
> > my surprise when I saw you... http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html -
> > See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
> >
> > 1-718-382-5752
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________
> > New Yorker Linux Users Scene
> > Fair Use -
> > because it's either fair use or useless....
>
> --
> __________________________
>
> Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> __________________________
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
> http://www.brooklynonline.com - For the love of Brooklyn
> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> http://www.nyfairuse.org - The foundation of Democracy
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/mp3/dr.mp3 - Imagine my surprise when I saw you...
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
>
> 1-718-382-5752
>
>
>
> ____________________________
> New Yorker Linux Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
>
____________________________
New Yorker Linux Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
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