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DATE 2002-06-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2002-06-20
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [hangout] IBM Space offers and Downtown Services

There is a bit of noise around the net about the IBM offer to create
a tech center and space for Free Software groups in NYC. I feel, that
in light of this offer to the community, we need to look at a number of
aspects of this development.

First of all, I would like to extend my personal thanks to the folks at
IBM for their years of ssuport of a number of groups and for providing
meeting space in Midtown for NYLUG, GNUBIES, Deludge, and a bunch of
other software organization.

There has been much speculation about the motives of IBM in making this
offer, and how atruistic IBM is towards GNU/Linux.

It's my belief that IBM is indeed excited about the prospects for
GNU/Linux as a platform to peddle their propeitary software. I believe
that IBM sees a future for themselves on this platform, and that the
collegiate nature of Linux developement and Free Software Developement.
The management of IBM sees Linux strictly in terms of it's ability to
generate revenue (and rightly so). I see no moral dillema in terms of
IBM's management profit driven motivations to exploit Free Software,
and Free Softwares need to create Free and Open platforms for software
developement. In fact, I see just the opposite. I want everyone to
run Free Software because the moral foundation of the software makes
pratical buisness sense.

However, I think that Free Software and our user groups, especially
NYLXS, have reason for concern about IBM's offer and IBM's current
business plan. We should not confuse IBM's agenda for our own. IBM,
as a business which provides IT services for enterprises and government,
can not accomplish many of the missions which NYLXS, as Free Software
institution feels it must provide to the general public. This is most
obvious in terms of general computer education, and empowerment programs.
These are not business goals (unless your business is a University) and
it still falls on the shoulders of organizations like NYLXS to promote
general computer education for the public at affordable prices.

IBM's educational offering are IBM specific. This should be of no
suprise. They're offerings are peppered with WebShperei, Domino and
DB2 offering,
neither of
which, to my knowledge, are free software. IBM also has licensing issues.
Obviously, they are targeting the use of propietary server applications
as their bread and butter on the Free GNU/Linux platform. And they
very focused on using GNU/Linux as a means to sell more close sourced
propietary products.

So while I deeply apreciate IBM's efforts to Free many projects,
and to help improve many Free Software products, IBM is not necessarily
an all encompassing guardian angle of free Software.

It was not long ago that IBM was proposing spyware in every IDE hard drive.
And the company has shown to be at times very sensitive to critism on these
matters, clumsy in their aproach (read the left hand doesn't know the right
hand is trying to patent common software discoveries), and often as much
of a threat to Free Softwares necessary political agenda as a help.

Putting these issues to the side for a moment, most importantly, our
Computing organizations must be very careful to remain finacially, politcally,
and organizationally independent. We must be able to make decisions without
wondering how IBM is going to react. There is a real danger of over dependence
on handout, not just form IBM, but from ANYONE, at the cost of the real work
needed to forge long lasting and effective organizations. This can not happen.

>From NYLXS's prospective, we've already made this error once, against my
better judgement, and I care not to do it again. NYLXS's membership is
dependent on volunteer hours, and we will only accept help of this nature
from members. Our members work hard and have a full stake in our success or
failure. This has the benefit of changing the very nature of the conversation
between the people we depend on to get things done, and the organizations leader
which is asking to fill the man and materials to get these tasks finished.

If IBM's personel and board of directors wish to pluck $40 on the table
and then donate 20 hours of volunteer hours with us, in the trenches, and
as full equal partners, we would love to then use their space for our
regular inservices, lectures and meetings. And while we might consider
doing a special event with IBM, I see nothing changing in the goal of
NYLXS to develope it's own educational space and facilities. We wouldn't
take a dime from them unless they are members.

Lastly, I think IBM is making a big mistake be focusing on the server market
for Free Software. I would ask IBM to invest in the GNU Desktop and help
us fill in the gaps of common desktop applications needed to run business.
As long as Microsoft control the desktop, then we are all just grabbing the
tiger by the tail. Microsoft can end IBM's ability to provide services tomorrow
if it chooses to. Until we have a large installation of Free Software desktops,
then we are at the mercy of others.


Ruben

--
__________________________

Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.brooklynonline.com -
For the love of Brooklyn http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development
in Free Software http://www.nyfairuse.org - The foundation of Democracy
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and
articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/mp3/dr.mp3 - Imagine
my surprise when I saw you... http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html -
See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-5752



____________________________
New Yorker Linux Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....

  1. 2002-06-03 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Open House Thur.
  2. 2002-06-03 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Resopnce to some wwwacs threads
  3. 2002-06-03 From: "Brendan W. McAdams" <rit-at-jacked-in.org> Re: [hangout] AIM
  4. 2002-06-03 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Last night's radio show now available for download
  5. 2002-06-03 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Last night's radio show now available for download
  6. 2002-06-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Hacktivism as High {Tech} Art
  7. 2002-06-03 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] Hacktivism as High {Tech} Art
  8. 2002-06-05 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Cross Platform Virus (Linux and Windows)
  9. 2002-06-05 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Open Source Article about Nautilus
  10. 2002-06-05 jonathan <jonathan-at-airbatic.com> Subject: [hangout] unsubscribe
  11. 2002-06-05 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] Can Webcasting be Saved?
  12. 2002-06-05 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] Improving mod_perl Sites' Performance: Part 1
  13. 2002-06-04 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [wwwac] Desktops with Linux
  14. 2002-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Re: [wwwac] Responce to some recent threads (long) [ag797-at-tagonline.com]
  15. 2002-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Re: [wwwac] Responce to some recent threads (long) [ag797-at-tagonline.com]
  16. 2002-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [wwwac] Responce to some recent threads (long)
  17. 2002-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [wwwac] Responce to some recent threads (long)
  18. 2002-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] I'm an NYLXS groupie
  19. 2002-06-04 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] I'm an NYLXS groupie
  20. 2002-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [wwwac] Reminder- You're Invited- Tonight (Tues) 7pm [morry-at-webproducers.org]
  21. 2002-06-04 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Interesting News Story..MS vs Linux in the Classroom
  22. 2002-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Interesting News Story..MS vs Linux in the Classroom
  23. 2002-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Interesting News Story..MS vs Linux in the Classroom
  24. 2002-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Interesting News Story..MS vs Linux in the Classroom
  25. 2002-06-04 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] I'm an NYLXS groupie
  26. 2002-06-04 Seth Johnson <seth.johnson-at-RealMeasures.dyndns.org> Subject: [hangout] RFI: Open-Source Software for Non-Profit ISP
  27. 2002-06-04 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] GNU on Fifth Avenue:
  28. 2002-06-03 marco-at-mrbrklyn.com Subject: [hangout] 6/6: Free Software Open House (newyork.craigslist.org events)
  29. 2002-06-03 marco-at-mrbrklyn.com Subject: [hangout] 6/6: Free Software Open House (newyork.craigslist.org events)
  30. 2002-06-05 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Taiwan can teach us a thing or two...
  31. 2002-06-05 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Journal Deadline
  32. 2002-06-05 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] nylxs mail
  33. 2002-06-05 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] nylxs mail
  34. 2002-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] PR
  35. 2002-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] PR
  36. 2002-06-05 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Subject: [hangout] PR
  37. 2002-06-05 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Subject: [hangout] PR
  38. 2002-06-05 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Subject: [hangout] Open Source is on the Air
  39. 2002-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fwd: [wwwac] WWWAC Open Source SIG Meeting: Case Study of Heck.com - 6/11
  40. 2002-06-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fwd: [wwwac] WWWAC Open Source SIG Meeting: Case Study of Heck.com - 6/11
  41. 2002-06-05 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Subject: [hangout] Systems with pre-installed Linux
  42. 2002-06-05 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [wwwac] WWWAC Open Source SIG Meeting: Case Study of Heck.com - 6/11
  43. 2002-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Journal Articles
  44. 2002-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Journal Articles
  45. 2002-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] O'Reilly Open Sources Book
  46. 2002-06-07 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] NYU: Ultravilet 2002 Technology Showcase
  47. 2002-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] MyBooks accounting software
  48. 2002-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] MyBooks accounting software
  49. 2002-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: FSI - info?
  50. 2002-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: FSI - info? [psmithcisdd-at-lycos.com]
  51. 2002-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: FSI - info? [psmithcisdd-at-lycos.com]
  52. 2002-06-06 Vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] MyBooks accounting software
  53. 2002-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FSI Page
  54. 2002-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FSI Page
  55. 2002-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] FSI Page
  56. 2002-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Journal Articles
  57. 2002-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Journal Articles
  58. 2002-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] O'Reilly Open Sources Book
  59. 2002-06-07 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] NYU: Ultravilet 2002 Technology Showcase
  60. 2002-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] MyBooks accounting software
  61. 2002-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] MyBooks accounting software
  62. 2002-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: FSI - info?
  63. 2002-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: FSI - info? [psmithcisdd-at-lycos.com]
  64. 2002-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: FSI - info? [psmithcisdd-at-lycos.com]
  65. 2002-06-06 Vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Subject: [hangout] MyBooks accounting software
  66. 2002-06-10 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  67. 2002-06-10 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Symantec Website
  68. 2002-06-10 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  69. 2002-06-10 jonathan <jonathan-at-airbatic.com> Subject: [hangout] gnu and linux
  70. 2002-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  71. 2002-06-10 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  72. 2002-06-10 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  73. 2002-06-10 From: "Brendan W. McAdams" <rit-at-jacked-in.org> RE: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  74. 2002-06-10 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  75. 2002-06-10 From: "Brendan W. McAdams" <rit-at-jacked-in.org> RE: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  76. 2002-06-10 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: Wednesday June 12, 2002 GNUbies meeting - Wendell Anderson -
  77. 2002-06-10 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: Wednesday June 12, 2002 GNUbies meeting - Wendell Anderson -
  78. 2002-06-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fair Use Bill
  79. 2002-06-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fair Use Bill
  80. 2002-06-10 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  81. 2002-06-10 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Re: [hangout] Washington Post
  82. 2002-06-10 Kevin Milani <news-at-impact-it.net> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  83. 2002-06-10 Kevin Milani <news-at-impact-it.net> RE: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  84. 2002-06-10 Kevin Milani <news-at-impact-it.net> RE: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  85. 2002-06-10 Kevin Milani <news-at-impact-it.net> Subject: [hangout] Symantec Website
  86. 2002-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Linuxworld
  87. 2002-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Linuxworld
  88. 2002-06-09 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Re: [hangout] village voice
  89. 2002-06-09 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Re: [hangout] village voice
  90. 2002-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] classes and such
  91. 2002-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] classes and such
  92. 2002-06-09 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Subject: [hangout] Linuxworld
  93. 2002-06-09 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Re: [hangout] classes and such
  94. 2002-06-09 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] classes and such
  95. 2002-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Washington Post
  96. 2002-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Washington Post
  97. 2002-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] village voice
  98. 2002-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] village voice
  99. 2002-06-09 Sunny Dubey <dubeys-at-voyager.bxscience.edu> Re: [hangout] village voice
  100. 2002-06-09 Dov Grobgeld <dov-at-imagic.weizmann.ac.il> Subject: [hangout] Re: Changing a Label Presentation
  101. 2002-06-09 Dov Grobgeld <dov-at-imagic.weizmann.ac.il> Subject: [hangout] Re: Changing a Label Presentation
  102. 2002-06-09 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] classes and such
  103. 2002-06-09 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] craigslist postings
  104. 2002-06-09 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] craigslist postings
  105. 2002-06-09 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] village voice
  106. 2002-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] village voice
  107. 2002-06-09 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] village voice
  108. 2002-06-09 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] village voice
  109. 2002-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Changing a Label Presentation
  110. 2002-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] classes and such
  111. 2002-06-10 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] Symantec Website
  112. 2002-06-11 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  113. 2002-06-11 Seth Johnson <seth.johnson-at-realmeasures.dyndns.org> Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  114. 2002-06-11 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  115. 2002-06-11 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  116. 2002-06-11 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  117. 2002-06-11 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  118. 2002-06-11 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  119. 2002-06-11 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  120. 2002-06-11 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Journal
  121. 2002-06-11 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Journal
  122. 2002-06-11 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  123. 2002-06-11 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  124. 2002-06-11 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  125. 2002-06-11 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  126. 2002-06-11 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  127. 2002-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  128. 2002-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  129. 2002-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  130. 2002-06-11 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  131. 2002-06-11 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Re: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  132. 2002-06-11 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Subject: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  133. 2002-06-11 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Subject: [hangout] Installfests for September, October
  134. 2002-06-11 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  135. 2002-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  136. 2002-06-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] Radio Show
  137. 2002-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Tuesday 11 June 2002 WWWAC Open Source SIG: Clay Gordon on Heck.com
  138. 2002-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Tuesday 11 June 2002 WWWAC Open Source SIG: Clay Gordon on Heck.com
  139. 2002-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  140. 2002-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  141. 2002-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [vipertek-at-megalink.net: usergroup]For the Membership Committee
  142. 2002-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] classes and such
  143. 2002-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] classes and such
  144. 2002-06-11 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Summer class schedule
  145. 2002-06-11 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Summer class schedule
  146. 2002-06-11 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] classes and such
  147. 2002-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] classes and such
  148. 2002-06-11 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Making Virtual Meetings with Free Software
  149. 2002-06-11 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Re: [hangout] classes and such
  150. 2002-06-11 From: <jays-at-panix.com> Subject: [hangout] Wednesday 12 June 2002 NYSA: David Stenglein on Clustering, Past, Present, and Future
  151. 2002-06-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Making Virtual Meetings with Free Software
  152. 2002-06-10 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] Washington Post
  153. 2002-06-10 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  154. 2002-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Article 2 - GTK Programming
  155. 2002-06-12 From: <jays-at-panix.com> Subject: [hangout] Wednesday 12 June 2002 Mozilla Release Party
  156. 2002-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Issues regarding Linux closed source drivers (fwd) [jays-at-panix.com]
  157. 2002-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Article 1 - Political Action Report
  158. 2002-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Open Source:
  159. 2002-06-12 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Is Ruben the only one...
  160. 2002-06-12 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Greenpeace cans Windows
  161. 2002-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] JOB: "Sysop" [claygordon-at-mindspring.com]
  162. 2002-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Is Ruben the only one...
  163. 2002-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Is Ruben the only one...
  164. 2002-06-13 From: "News" <news-at-impact-it.net> Subject: [hangout] MITRE Study on Open Source in Government
  165. 2002-06-12 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  166. 2002-06-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  167. 2002-06-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  168. 2002-06-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  169. 2002-06-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  170. 2002-06-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  171. 2002-06-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
  172. 2002-06-14 Mark Halegua <phantom21-at-mindspring.com> Re: [hangout] Know your rights - all three of them
  173. 2002-06-14 Mark Halegua <phantom21-at-mindspring.com> Re: [hangout] Know your rights - all three of them
  174. 2002-06-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] I updated the radio page on the server
  175. 2002-06-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] I updated the radio page on the server
  176. 2002-06-13 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] adieu (for the summer)
  177. 2002-06-13 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] adieu (for the summer)
  178. 2002-06-13 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Job announcement: Systems administrator (human rights and open source/free software) [colleenw-at-bway.net]
  179. 2002-06-13 Jon Bober <bober-at-acm.cs.nyu.edu> Re: [hangout] Is Ruben the only one...
  180. 2002-06-13 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Know your rights - all three of them
  181. 2002-06-13 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Command Sarget Major of Scheduling - Include the dinner
  182. 2002-06-15 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] resource list
  183. 2002-06-15 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] resource list
  184. 2002-06-15 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] resource list
  185. 2002-06-15 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! Re: [wwwac] more about dreamweaver mx
  186. 2002-06-14 jonathan <jonathan-at-airbatic.com> Subject: [hangout] menace
  187. 2002-06-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] wwwac web-based forum
  188. 2002-06-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] wwwac web-based forum
  189. 2002-06-14 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Re: [hangout] Civili Liberties and spying
  190. 2002-06-14 From: =?utf-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBSaWNoYXJkc29u?= <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] =?utf-8?B?UkU6IFtoYW5nb3V0XSBBcmUgd2UgdXAgdG8gIk9kZCBKb2IiIHN0?= =?utf-8?B?YW5kYXJkcz8=?=
  191. 2002-06-14 Kevin Mark <kmark-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] Are we up to "Odd Job" standards?
  192. 2002-06-15 Sunny Dubey <dubeys-at-voyager.bxscience.edu> GNU/Linux within the New York City School System | Was: Re: [hangout] cablevision
  193. 2002-06-15 Paul Rodriguez <sangretoro-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] cablevision
  194. 2002-06-15 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] I updated the craigslist postings
  195. 2002-06-15 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] I updated the craigslist postings
  196. 2002-06-15 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Subject: [hangout] Re: Adobe needs GNU/Linux expert
  197. 2002-06-15 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Subject: [hangout] Re: Adobe needs GNU/Linux expert
  198. 2002-06-16 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Committee members
  199. 2002-06-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Education Center - Tonights Broadcast
  200. 2002-06-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Education Center - Tonights Broadcast
  201. 2002-06-16 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Deadline
  202. 2002-06-16 From: <jays-at-panix.com> Subject: [hangout] Tuesday 18 June 2002 IPCNYCLA: Copyright and the Museum of Comic and Cartoon Art
  203. 2002-06-16 wynkoop-at-wynn.com Subject: [hangout] Real Pulled plug on Linux
  204. 2002-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] wwwacs: unnerviing new virus trick with OE preview pane/Word [biteme-at-spamcop.net]
  205. 2002-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] wwwacs: unnerviing new virus trick with OE preview pane/Word [biteme-at-spamcop.net]
  206. 2002-06-16 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Re: [hangout] Command Sarget Major of Scheduling - Include the dinner
  207. 2002-06-16 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Re: [hangout] Command Sarget Major of Scheduling - Include the dinner
  208. 2002-06-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Longterm NYLXS calendar
  209. 2002-06-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: NYLXS at CUNY
  210. 2002-06-16 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Re: Adobe needs GNU/Linux expert
  211. 2002-06-16 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [hangout] Re: Adobe needs GNU/Linux expert
  212. 2002-06-17 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] last night's show
  213. 2002-06-17 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Tonights meeting upgraded to a full board meeting
  214. 2002-06-17 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Tonights meeting upgraded to a full board meeting
  215. 2002-06-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] meeting to discuss accounting desktop
  216. 2002-06-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] meeting to discuss accounting desktop
  217. 2002-06-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] LINC: Using GNU/Linux in Organizing [seth.johnson-at-RealMeasures.dyndns.org]
  218. 2002-06-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] LINC: Using GNU/Linux in Organizing [seth.johnson-at-RealMeasures.dyndns.org]
  219. 2002-06-17 Seth Johnson <seth.johnson-at-RealMeasures.dyndns.org> Subject: [hangout] Current, Open & Ongoing Technology Grants
  220. 2002-06-17 Seth Johnson <seth.johnson-at-realmeasures.dyndns.org> Subject: [hangout] LINC: Using GNU/Linux in Organizing
  221. 2002-06-17 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] Radio show
  222. 2002-06-17 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Subject: [hangout] Radio Show updated
  223. 2002-06-19 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] NY times reports Disney switches to Linux for anima
  224. 2002-06-19 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] nfs4 patches being prepared for kernel 2.5
  225. 2002-06-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] JOB FAIR This Tuesday, June 25 Open to all
  226. 2002-06-20 From: "Joseph A. Maffia" <jam-at-rm-cpa.com> Re: [alexc2649-at-nyc.rr.com: [hangout] accounting desktop meeting]
  227. 2002-06-20 alex <alexc2649-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] accounting desktop meeting
  228. 2002-06-20 alex <alexc2649-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] accounting desktop meeting
  229. 2002-06-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] IBM Space offers and Downtown Services
  230. 2002-06-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] IBM Space offers and Downtown Services
  231. 2002-06-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] perl hash value
  232. 2002-06-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] perl hash value
  233. 2002-06-21 Matus Telgarsky <mit-at-juilliard.edu> Re: [hangout] More on Home Theatre
  234. 2002-06-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Speach for French Program
  235. 2002-06-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Speach for French Program
  236. 2002-06-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Internet Radio
  237. 2002-06-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Internet Radio
  238. 2002-06-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Website updates
  239. 2002-06-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Website updates
  240. 2002-06-21 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] More on Home Theatre
  241. 2002-06-21 From: <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] More on Home Theatre
  242. 2002-06-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] bylaws and website
  243. 2002-06-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] IBM Space offers and Downtown Services
  244. 2002-06-21 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Re: [hangout] IBM Space offers and Downtown Services
  245. 2002-06-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Packet Forwarding
  246. 2002-06-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Packet Forwarding
  247. 2002-06-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Packet Forwarding
  248. 2002-06-21 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] IBM Space offers and Downtown Services
  249. 2002-06-23 From: <jays-at-panix.com> Subject: [hangout] Monday 24 June 2002 NYLXS: Ruben Safir on the Theory and Practice of Several Communicating Processes, with Special Attention to GTk
  250. 2002-06-23 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Still no addresses in the classes site
  251. 2002-06-23 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] perl hash value
  252. 2002-06-23 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Custom workflow software
  253. 2002-06-23 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Custom workflow software
  254. 2002-06-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] A Challenge (was: Re: [nyc-g33ks] Ghana's Digital Dilemma and using Linux) (fwd)
  255. 2002-06-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] A Challenge (was: Re: [nyc-g33ks] Ghana's Digital Dilemma and using Linux) (fwd)
  256. 2002-06-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] TECHEXPO
  257. 2002-06-23 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Multi-Media Tech support needed
  258. 2002-06-23 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Subject: [hangout] A Challenge (was: Re: [nyc-g33ks] Ghana's Digital Dilemma and using
  259. 2002-06-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Multi-Media Tech support needed
  260. 2002-06-25 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Fwd: Re: Radio Show Issues [wynkoop-at-wynn.com]
  261. 2002-06-25 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Re: Radio Show Issues [wynkoop-at-wynn.com]
  262. 2002-06-25 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Re: Radio Show Issues [wynkoop-at-wynn.com]
  263. 2002-06-25 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [suse-security-announce] OpenSSH Vulnerability [okir-at-suse.de]
  264. 2002-06-25 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [wwwac] nyc-based internet radio (fwd)
  265. 2002-06-25 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Subject: [hangout] [wwwac] nyc-based internet radio (fwd)
  266. 2002-06-24 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Multi-Media Tech support needed
  267. 2002-06-24 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Multi-Media Tech support needed
  268. 2002-06-24 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Re: [hangout] Still no addresses in the classes site
  269. 2002-06-24 Jay Sulzberger <jays-at-panix.com> Re: [hangout] Still no addresses in the classes site
  270. 2002-06-26 From: <jays-at-panix.com> Subject: [hangout] Wednesday 26 June 2002 Silicon Alley Live Broadcast from TECHXNY and More on the UNIGROUP GNU/Linux Multimedia Meeting
  271. 2002-06-26 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net Subject: [hangout] Diskless terminals question
  272. 2002-06-26 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Tomorrow Mornings Accountiong Desktop Meeting
  273. 2002-06-26 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] MS to "Take On" GPL
  274. 2002-06-26 From: "Brandon Miller" <brandon-at-careercenters.com> Subject: [hangout] RE: Membership to NYLXS
  275. 2002-06-26 From: "Brandon Miller" <brandon-at-careercenters.com> Subject: [hangout] RE: Membership to NYLXS
  276. 2002-06-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Membership to NYLXS
  277. 2002-06-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Membership to NYLXS
  278. 2002-06-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Recording Sound on a Laptop
  279. 2002-06-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Recording Sound on a Laptop
  280. 2002-06-27 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Fwd: Re: Radio Show Issues [wynkoop-at-wynn.com]
  281. 2002-06-27 wynkoop-at-wynn.com Re: [hangout] Linux demo at LaGuardia community college
  282. 2002-06-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Linux demo at LaGuardia community college
  283. 2002-06-27 From: "Dimitar Georgievski" <dimitarg-at-websyn.com> RE: [hangout] Linux demo at LaGuardia community college
  284. 2002-06-27 wynkoop-at-wynn.com Re: [hangout] Fwd: Re: Radio Show Issues [wynkoop-at-wynn.com]
  285. 2002-06-27 Marco Scoffier <marco4linux-at-earthlink.net> Re: [hangout] Recording Sound on a Laptop
  286. 2002-06-28 Mike Richardson - Jounal Committee NYLXS <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Desktop Initiatvie Meeting (fwd)
  287. 2002-06-30 From: "Dimitar Georgievski" <dimitarg-at-websyn.com> RE: [hangout] Linux demo at LaGuardia community college
  288. 2002-06-30 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Cruise
  289. 2002-06-30 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Shared Secrets using SSH Sentinal fails [ruben-at-www2]
  290. 2002-06-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Membership to NYLXS
  291. 2002-06-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Linux demo at LaGuardia community college
  292. 2002-06-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Linux demo at LaGuardia community college
  293. 2002-06-27 Vin <a1enviro-at-cloud9.net> Re: [hangout] Domain name registrars
  294. 2002-06-09 Paul Davis <pbd-at-op.net> Subject: [hangout] Re: Changing a Label Presentation
  295. 2002-06-14 Diane Rollins <dr57-at-nyu.edu> Re: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! - weird exclamation point
  296. 2002-06-14 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! - weird exclamation point
  297. 2002-06-14 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! - weird exclamation point
  298. 2002-06-14 Diane Rollins <dr57-at-nyu.edu> Re: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! - weird exclamation point
  299. 2002-06-14 Diane Rollins <dr57-at-nyu.edu> Re: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! - weird exclamation point
  300. 2002-06-14 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! - weird exclamation point
  301. 2002-06-14 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! - weird exclamation point
  302. 2002-06-14 Diane Rollins <dr57-at-nyu.edu> Re: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! - weird exclamation point
  303. 2002-06-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! the brain-dead exclamation point solution
  304. 2002-06-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! the brain-dead exclamation point solution
  305. 2002-06-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! the brain-dead exclamation point solution
  306. 2002-06-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! the brain-dead exclamation point solution
  307. 2002-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! the brain-dead exclamation point solution
  308. 2002-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! the brain-dead exclamation point solution
  309. 2002-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [wwwac]! the brain-dead exclamation point solution
  310. 2002-06-25 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [wwwac]! programmer for e-commerce website [davis.carla-at-earthlink.net]
  311. 2002-06-25 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [wwwac]! programmer for e-commerce website [davis.carla-at-earthlink.net]
  312. 2002-06-24 Ray Connolly <RConnolly-at-natsource.com> RE: [hangout] Multi-Media Tech support needed
  313. 2002-06-24 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Multi-Media Tech support needed

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