MESSAGE
| DATE | 2002-06-11 |
| FROM | David Sugar
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
|
Brendan W. McAdams wrote:
>You talk and you talk about how we need to do this and we need to do
>that and yet you don't do anything about it.
>
>Microsoft is where they are today because they put their money where
>their mouth is and released fucking product. It works, its easy for the
>users to use. Hell, a lobotomized idiot can install and run XP.
>
GNU/Linux systems have been exceptionally easy to install for perhaps
over a year now. Even my 9 year old son can install a Mandrake
distribution, as just one example. This is just a false argument.
>Linux has a long way to go to reach this goal. A LONG Way. For
>starters, X11 is a bloated piece of shit that barely functions. Yet
>replacing this antiquated garbage is a task that nobody is willing to
>undertake because it would break 'compatibility'.
>
This is a misplaced argument. X is wonderful for what it is designed
for. That I can take a ssh session to my system at home, forward X over
it, and run mozilla on a remote desktop securely is wonderful, and
something that represents both the foundation of what a "network aware"
windowing system is about, and how well X works when used correctly.
The problem is that many desktop environments, and particularly gnome
and KDE, seem to attempt to emulate the mechanics and form of the
Microsoft Windows desktop, rather than ask the more deeper question of
how one can make a better user experiance for the unique nature of X.
For example, it would be cool to have a desktop environment that could
directly create a shortcut icon for me that brings up an ssh session
like I described above. If one looks at the question of network based
windowing more completely, it is clear a new kind of user experiance and
interface mechanics are needed, and new methods to take advantage of it,
rather than trying to create something that is neutered of it's best
features and just becomes another desktop microsoft windows clone
environment.
>There's a difference here. There are alot of people out in the real
>world making real money trying to get things done as best they can. I
>for one can't wait for Linux to catch up with the features and
>functionality I need in order to do my job. So I run VMWare. And when,
>as it does on many occasions, Linux fails at its job, I run a Windows
>session to get it done.
>
What features or functionality are missing from the Linux kernel that
effect or keep you from doing your job? Now if you mean GNU/Linux, do
you really mean features or do you mean applications? This sounds like
a case of the latter...
>I get up every morning and go to work and I write code. I contribute
>everything I can. In the evening I contribute what I can to free
>software projects; I put my money where my mouth is to the point that
>I'm probably stretched way too thin.
>
Then you need to get out more, or join a user group :)
>Yet I see these user groups and political organizations all over the
>place beating their proverbial bibles and screaming "THE END IS NIGH!".
>User groups apparently serve as a place for those that can't deal with
>reality to get together and bitch about how cruel a place the real world
>is. If you pick your heads up for a few minutes and look around you,
>you are going to realize that the world is passing you by. It's
>changing before your very eyes.
>
User groups, like any human social organization, tends to believe in
re-enforce it's own group think or ideology. The only real solution to
this problem would be for users not to group together or communicate
with each other at all, but stay at home in isolation :). However,
doing so I think has even less to do with reality than user groups. No,
I am not really intending to mock you here, I am just trying to point
out that I think your expectations are simply unrealistic to start with.
>What features would you put in a spreadsheet that aren't in Excel? What
>functionality would a user want? What functions would a user need?
>Say what you want about Microsoft but they often do a good job of
>providing to their users what they want, albeit just as often they cram
>down their throats what they think they 'need'.
>
By far the most important "feature" that is missing is freedom, whether
it's freedom to take one's data and use it elsewhere, the freedom to
access said data after a new release "expires" the current file format,
or most importantly the freedom to use, modify, improve, learn from, and
distribute the program involved. Innovation, when it is command driven,
is often poorer. The question is not what needs you know about, but
what needs you don't yet know and things that might have been possible
and you might find useful if someone was free to discover them.
Consider when we had a single phone monopoly that took care of all our
needs; the one great innovation it did for consumers lives was the
touch-tone-phone :). Of course, at that time, people said who would
ever need more from a phone anyway also :)....
>I hear people give me spiels about how they know best because they are
>older than me (which somehow de facto makes them wiser), or more
>experienced. These same people shred other developers publicly about
>their choice of languages, claiming they somehow know better. Yet I
>don't see any of you out there doing anything of worth, other than
>standing on your soap boxes shouting in the wind.
>
>Ruben, you asked me yesterday if I'm staying or going. I've made my
>decision. After this email i'll be sending another unsubscribe; i'd
>appreciate it if you put it through.
>
>-Brendan
>
>
>On Tue, 2002-06-11 at 13:31, Ruben Safir wrote:
>
>
>>>>trying to keep up with Microsoft. They've abandoned Gnome Basic and
>>>>they're hoping to catch up by leaping into .NET by way of Mono.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Ah, good. Of course, I expect that a simple combination of tar, gzip, and
>>>Lisp style notation for s-expressions is what all are moving to.
>>>
>>>
>>I don't see how jumping into the .NET crapola middleware is helping at all.
>>It's just a waste of development resources, and is further chasing the
>>MS moving target. Gates is laughing all the way to the bank on this one.
>>
>>Instead of innovating a truely good spreadsheet working through our
>>excellent Free Software tools, we waste time chasing the MicroSoft
>>marketing stratergy which is DESIGNED to slow down the competition
>>and drag everyone to the MS drumbeat.
>>
>>Are those people stupid or just a brain washed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>THE MAN WHO IS TIRED OF CRACKMONKEY IS TIRED OF BROOKLYN.
>>>
>>>
>>OK
>>
>>I'm lost how crackmonkey even got into this thread.
>>
>>Ruben
>>--
>>__________________________
>>
>>Brooklyn Linux Solutions
>>__________________________
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>>http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
>>http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/mp3/dr.mp3 - Imagine my surprise when I saw you...
>>http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
>>
>>1-718-382-5752
>>
>>
>>
>>____________________________
>>New Yorker Linux Users Scene
>>Fair Use -
>>because it's either fair use or useless....
>>
>>
>
>
>____________________________
>New Yorker Linux Users Scene
>Fair Use -
>because it's either fair use or useless....
>
>
____________________________
New Yorker Linux Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
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