MESSAGE
| DATE | 2002-06-09 |
| FROM | Ruben I Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [hangout] classes and such
|
Your not having a good day....
Ruben
On 2002.06.08 22:44 a1enviro-at-cloud9.net wrote:
>
> Nice to have to put this on hangout where everybody can see it, but...
> 1. I know several other NYLXSrs that are out of work right now. 2. I
> know of another that is about to become unemployed. 3. I know that if I
> took the Perl1/Perl2 combo deal, I would have been out my money because
> the Perl1 class, combined with Unix1 and work was too much for me. I
> plan on taking the Perl 2 class after some more study on my own. 4.
> Regardless of NYU or other schools charging $35,000 or whatever for a
> Linux class, I couldn't care less. NYU can charge whatever they want.
> Doesn't mean I'm going to take it. I knew I'd take Linux training back
> when Linux was a 22 or 40 floppy download (I forget which). Now, years
> later is when I take the training because I can afford it not because of
> my financial situation (which was actually better when I was in high
> school), but because the classes are priced so that I can afford them.
> 5. If I have to sign up for the two classes in one shot for the discount,
> count me out. I know that I require further independent study on my own
> after each class. The material needs to be hammered into my head or I
> don't get it. 6. I saw a post forwarded to hangout about trying to get
> the class certified for participation in some government type
> sponsored/paid classes for unemployed workers. I can tell you that in
> other training, both computer school training programs, and other
> industry related training programs, free repeats are required by most
> government programs, and are offered for most industry training,
> regardless of whether there is a test to pass or not, and regardless of
> whether the government programs require it or not. 7. Losing the
> "discount" or paying more because I can't afford the two classes in one
> shot, or am afraid to lose the second class money because I didn't get
> the first class, and need further independent study will really burn my
> backside. The first time that happens to me will probably be the last
> time you'll see me. The class fee then becomes a penalty, and I still
> have scores to settle on penalties from over 15 years ago. I haven't
> been in a Sears store because of a $0.25 piece of plastic that took down
> my compressor and my old business for two days because Sears management
> is too incompetent to hire decent employees that have the knowledge to
> get me that $0.25 piece of plastic. I had to come up with my own
> solution using a plumbing supply place for parts instead, and become a
> compressor engineer to get my business up and running again. That was
> 1988. I haven't stepped foot in a Sears since then. Nor will I ever again.
>
> The problem of not having enough people for next week's classes
> emphasizes a more fundamental problem of NYLXS. Schedules and
> announcements for events nearly always happen just before the event.
> This must change. It is now June. Given a two and a half to three month
> lead time for publications, The schedule for September should be
> finalized, with work on October happening now, and an eye to events in
> the late fall, early winter being considered. Linux Journal and Linux
> Magazine have print editions. They have calendars in the print editions.
> Why don't we have NYLXS events in these print editions? See problem
> above. Why wasn't the CUNY demo listed in these print editions? See
> problem above. Why wasn't the Internet Radio Show announced in a press
> release and printed in the print editions of these magazines? See
> problem above. Why weren't the events listed in major newspapers'
> calendars? See problem above. Why aren't the the installfests listed in
> newspapers and cable news programs in New York City? See problem above.
> Why aren't there enough students for the classes? See all the questions
> and problem above.
>
> Creative fee structures won't solve a fundamental problem. It will
> create new ones. I have been trying to get my cousin to take Linux1. He
> unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, was hired
> and started working a new job the same day that I took my first Linux1
> class. If not for the job, he would have taken the class with me. Now
> that you are bundling the Linux1 class and Unix1 class, he won't even
> bother asking to take off work early on Mondays so that he can take the
> class. His company does backups on Monday night. Taking 5 successive
> Monday nights off, or even leaving work is pushing it a little for a new
> employee, but he was about to try. Taking 10 is out of the question.
>
> As for the lead time, three months in advance would be mid September. I
> can find a date in September, and after approval Monday, I can probably
> come up with a location in Woodside Queens to host an installfest. In
> September. On a date far enough in advance that the installfest can be
> listed in monthly magazines. Not just in their online editions, but in
> their print editions. LM & LJ are not the only computer magazines out
> there. There are others that have monthly Linux columns, and calendars.
> And NYLXS should get events in each one of them. Every month.
>
> NYLXS had a booth at Linuxworld. Isn't that in the fall/winter? Will
> NYLXS have a booth this year? Especially considering the arrangement for
> the booth last year? If so, once confirmed, shouldn't we be preparing to
> announce this fact within the next few weeks? Does it cost the booth
> operators anything to give free passes or codes for free passes to the
> event? If not, shouldn't we be doing this so that people interested in
> going will come to NYLXS web site to get the codes? Or fill out a form
> to get the passes? Wouldn't it be a good idea to get people to come to
> NYLXS web site for that? Wouldn't that increase awareness of the group?
> Wouldn't that increase bodies for the classes?
>
> I learned my lesson with expensive advertising with my company. I also
> learned my lesson with flyers. NYLXS still hasn't learned its lesson.
> Giving out flyers is a joke. The realization will eventually hit. It
> took a while for me too. It will take a little longer if you get what
> you think is a good response to learn this lesson.
>
> I just started listening to the radio show archives. A revolution, or
> something to that effect is what was described in the opening remarks.
> The computer empowering the people. So what is NYLXS doing? Handing out
> flyers. Think of the time spent/wasted doing this, one flyer, to one
> person, who may take the class. How many flyers were handed out? How
> many man-hours and woman-hours were spent designing the flyers? Or
> printing them? Or meeting to pick them up? Or distributing them? What
> was the response? One in one hundred? One in one thousand? If it was
> one in ten, the classes would be jammed. Instead, what do you have? Toe jam.
>
> Now think of the time that could have been spent "unleashing the power"
> of the computer or "empowering the people" through the computer. Did
> NYLXS use the computer to get the bodies for the classes? No. It
> printed flyers. Spend that time fixing the web site. Announcing the
> classes. Announcing the events. Getting into the magazines. Getting
> into the newspapers. Does the computer have any power? Or is that just
> fluff? Not fluff? Then how can you possibly compare flyers to that?
>
> NYLXS needs a Sergeant At Arms to enforce deadlines. These deadlines
> have to be months in advance. Planning must be months in advance. Don't
> have enough bodies for a class starting June 10? TOUGH. Forget June
> 10. Forget June 17. Forget June 24. Try July 1. And at the same time,
> schedule August and September. Once September is scheduled, get it
> published. Can't get classes published? Only events? Put the pressure
> on. Linux Journal and Linux Magazine are starving for content. One of
> them is even accepting advertising from Microsoft. They need
> advertising. They need content. I don't even buy their hard copy
> anymore because the magazines are so thin it's not worth the $5 or
> whatever the newstand price is. I haven't bought the hard copies in over
> a year because of this. They should be paying NYLXS because we are
> supplying them with content. Yet they are still selling hard copies
> because I check their circulation. And they are probably in it for the
> long haul. If so, they'll survive. And they need us as much as we need
> them. Perhaps more.
>
> I don't have the knowledge or experience with Linux to contribute to
> events like the CUNY Demo, or the radio show. If I had time to write an
> article for the journal from a newbie perspective, I would, but I don't
> have the time. There aren't enough days in the week for me. And
> considering the length of items that I write, NYLXS couldn't afford the
> paper. So when I see something that I can do, I try and do it. I know
> that the CUNY Demo and Radio Show took a tremendous effort on the part of
> many others. And the effort paid off. Both in the quality of the
> presentations, and the response. Now imagine what the response would
> have been if scheduled properly, and advertised widely. 300 people showed
> up? What if 3000 people showed up? From what I heard about Linuxworld,
> had the CUNY Demo been scheduled enough time in advance, NYLXS would have
> had a bigger turnout than Linuxworld. It would have made headlines after
> the fact in over a dozen computer magazines/netzines, it would have been
> Slashdotted (or not, I'm not privy to the politics on this), it probably
> would have made the tech sections of major newspapers.
>
> Linux is in the mainstream headlines today due to what the Borg in
> Redmond are doing to schools, and the forced upgrade issue with
> businesses. If the event would have been jammed, with people unable to
> get in, with CUNY stating that next year it will be in a bigger hall
> because of the tremendous response, and so on, this would have made
> headlines everywhere. NYLXS is doing more than most of the groups out
> there. NYLXS is getting things done. But NYLXS needs to let others know
> this. It is not doing this now. Once a greater awareness is made of
> NYLXS, there won't be any problem with getting bodies into the classes.
>
> I took a Linux intro class through a LUG. I didn't attend the first or
> last class. But I also didn't learn what I needed to learn. The Linux1
> class I took at NYLXS is an order of magnitude above the LUG Linux intro
> class. You can't compare the two. I realized this the first night. The
> quality of the instruction given, and the amount of information provided
> cannot be compared to LUG Linux classes. Word of mouth will bring
> bodies. This is true in my industry, and will also be true for NYLXS.
>
> I'm done for now. More next week. Let the flames begin!
>
> Vincenzo.
>
> btw, I need to raise cash. The box I bought from NYLXS for the Linux1
> class is available for $440.00 It is good for new Linux1 students.
> That's a delivered price to Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx, Manhattan, Staten
> Island, Westchester or Nassau. I can deliver it tomorrow (Sunday) if you
> are starting Linux1 Monday. It has Suse 7.3 Professional installed, and
> updated through SUSE's online update service for all security patches in
> the last 10-15 days or so. It also has the 2.4.18 kernel, as well as the
> 2.4.10 SUSE kernel. It is currently serving a web site with Apache, and
> will be simple to reconfigure to serve your web site if you want. If you
> are starting Linux 1 Monday, you will be wiping the hard drive, and
> starting over, but if you plan on taking the Linux1 class at a later
> date, this will be a good box to practice on, as it is up and running
> already. If you start Monday, but don't use a computer Monday, then you
> can get this one at a lower price. Includes computer, keyboard, and
> mouse. This is everything the NYLXS box comes with. Monitor not included.
>
> On 08 Jun 2002 18:59:16 -0400 Paul Rodriguez wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi, Everybody. Since it is important we get more people for the classes
> > next week, I propose we start pushing the $300 for 1 class $500 for 2
> > summer special. Or maybe we can keep the $600 for 2 classes and make it
> > $500 if you bring a friend (in other words, they each get $100 off).
> > What do you think? I think either one is a good incentive, I am partial
> > to the second, but welcome ideas.
> >
> > Also, the file permissions on the class web pages haven't changed.
> >
> > - Paul
> >
>
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