MESSAGE
| DATE | 2002-06-10 |
| FROM | Kevin Milani
|
| SUBJECT | RE: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
|
Brendan,
I have an intense desire to not only improve the features of Open Source
products to match the products used in the mainstream, but I would
really like it if new innovations were added that allowed open source to
move past where the mainstream applications are today.
I agree with you about some opensource desktop applications not being up
to par with mainstream applications.
I have been working on switching from the business/end-user side to the
programming side over the past couple of years. I have developed some
web/database applications and really want to learn how to code well
enough to contribute to applications like Open Office, etc.
I can contribute by using the products and providing feedback. And,
there is always documentation. I may also be able to introduce new
innovations which could give these applications the edge they need over
the evil beast in Redmond.
I would imagine that there are other people within NYLXS that have
similar feelings.
We could look at what is out there, pick a product or a feature of a
product and begin to contribute back to the community.
NYLXS deserves a lot of credit for contributing back to the community in
a different but very important way. The goals of NYLXS are also very
important to the advancement and acceptance of Open Source software.
The battle we are waging with Microsoft has many fronts. To be
successful the open source community has to fight on as many of those
fronts as possible.
One front that we are way behind in is marketing/advertising of "open
source" and this is critical because Redmond has an annual marketing
budget in the hundreds of millions and the more people hear the lies the
more they believe them. We have to "shake" the perception people have
of Microsoft and alert them to the dangers inherent in continuing to use
Microsoft products. People also need to know that they have
alternatives.
I have begun working on setting up a Linux Marketing Board -- think "Got
Milk" -- with a marketing consulting firm I have been working with for
the last 6 years. (They will help with strategy and consulting if I can
get it going.) I just had the idea a couple weeks ago, so it is not very
far along, but if other people are interested in the idea, please let me
know.
Best regards,
Kevin
On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 10:22, Brendan W. McAdams wrote:
>
> [It seems my 'unsubscribe' hasn't yet gone through, and since someone is
> actually willing to have a conversation about this, I don't see why we
> should cut the thread off before it begins.]
>
> Please excuse me while I refuse to call it GNU/Linux. =) It seems
> someone found the button to push to set me off
>
> A voice of reason is, of course, an important thing. However, I fear to
> hear my voice becoming anything but reasonable in conversations I have
> on this list as frustration mounts due to people just not taking a hint.
>
> I'm not sure if I quite got my point across with the growing up issue.
>
> I agree, we have to move forward. The problem I see however is people
> doing things like insisting it's done, ship it, no more work. Or
> insisting, for example, The GIMP is just as good as Photoshop. It
> simply isn't true. Usability, functionality, features etc. Yes, Perl
> scripting is wonderful but how often do you automate graphics work with
> an external program rather than doing it by hand? I won't go into a
> long list of comparative rants as I think I've done so in the past.
>
> What NYLXS needs, because I don't think any other group has it, is the
> ability as a group to analyze where shortcomings are, and FIX THEM.
>
> I hereby propose the formation of a Steering Committee to solicit a
> feasibility study on the creation of a "Code Enhancement Group".
>
> The way I see it, what is needed is someone out there looking at the
> free, open source Unix based products and seeing what is missing. At
> bringing products that we use on windows over to *nix (As shitty a
> product as MS Project is, I still need it for work, as do a lot of
> people. And I have yet to find a program even close to Visio - it seems
> like development on Dia has stopped). At increasing the usability and
> friendliness of the system for the average user. At enhancing the
> overall system that we call Linux. Ximian is doing a great job of this
> - Evolution is a phenomenal product - it is the BIG reason I was able to
> do dump Windows at work. But why does it take commercial entities to
> provide these things we need? I support Ximian with my time (beta
> testing) and my dollars because they are giving back to me the
> applications I need - things that make my life worth living (when you
> code as much as I do, you don't have much to live for ). Can NYLXS
> or any other group out there offer me the same thing?
>
> I'm willing to be a voice of reason, to some level, if people are
> willing to listen to reason. I can be just as strong willed as everyone
> else here but I think I have a good idea of when to back down on an
> issue.
>
> Should anyone else be willing to consider these things in a reasonable
> manner as Michael apparently has, I would be willing to discuss it.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 10:12, Michael Richardson wrote:
> > Brendan, while you maybe beating your head against the wall, NYLXS needs a
> > voice of reason. NYLXS can not learn or grow if everyone thinks alike. Yes
> > it is hard and tiring to fight up hill but don't quit NYLXS needs you more
> > than you need NYLXS.
> >
> > As I understand it NYLXS is not here to write code. However as long as
> > those who write code for GNU/Linux insist that it is not ready for the
> > desktop no one will believe it to be. Was Microsoft ready for the desktop
> > when it launched? GNU/Linux needs to go with what it has on the desktop and
> > then improve it as it goes.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brendan W. McAdams [mailto:rit-at-jacked-in.org]
> > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 7:58 AM
> > To: hangout-at-nylxs.com
> > Subject: [hangout] I Bid You All Adieu
> >
> >
> >
> > Due to enormous volume of useless text, and a constant desire to avoid
> > pontification as much as possible, I am unsubscribing myself from the
> > list. I can only hope this group, unlike every other LUG, will learn to
> > temper their views with common sense and acceptance of the views of
> > others. I have yet to see this from NYLXS and I'm not really holding
> > out hope anymore.
> >
> > While Ruben is a great man, and has a lot to offer the world, he, like
> > many of you and many others out there (and myself in many regards),
> > refuses to stand down from his views even when proven wrong. This takes
> > a lot of personal strength but it does not necessarily indicate a strong
> > individual. It simply indicates an unyielding mind so hellbent on his
> > own righteousness that he doesn't realise the effect (or lack thereof)
> > that he is having on the world around him.
> >
> > Politics, infighting and mudslinging only serve to make it easier for
> > Windows to continue. Linux is still a relatively unusable product on
> > the desktop. Yet, rather than accept this fact and work to further it,
> > groups like this try to force Linux down the users throat. Groups like
> > NYLXS should be putting together Usability Research groups, and putting
> > together proposals showing shortcomings. These reports should be going
> > to groups within or without of the organization that actually work on
> > the apps in question and make them better. Simply wishing for a
> > replacement to Windows on the desk isn't going to do the job. Linux has
> > come a long way in the last few years but I have met very few people who
> > are willing to go that extra mile to get it there. I've offered on so
> > many occasions to help in this respect, and get told by people "Our
> > application is perfect!" or something along those lines that is not only
> > inane but self centered and blind.
> >
> > Should NYLXS turn around and being writing code, etc to help meet it's
> > goals, I would be happy to participate in such groups. A Steering
> > Committee for said projects would be an excellent beginning.
> >
> > Until this time, however, I will take my leave.
> >
> > I fully expect that as my views don't match those of NYLXS that I'll be
> > ripped apart, cursed at, spit upon and insulted for the next few days as
> > you analyze my message in painstakingly incorrect detail; again,
> > apparently the norm around here. Have fun.
> >
> > It has, as always, been a pleasure.
> >
> > If any of you need me, you know how to contact me =)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Brendan
> > -----
> > Brendan W. McAdams
> > Mobile: (973)517-9919
> >
> > "Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why.
> > Then do it."
> > - Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> > "I cannot make my days longer, so I strive to make them better."
> > - Henry David Thoreau
> >
> >
> > ____________________________
> > New Yorker Linux Users Scene
> > Fair Use -
> > because it's either fair use or useless....
>
>
> ____________________________
> New Yorker Linux Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
____________________________
New Yorker Linux Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
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