MESSAGE
DATE | 2002-05-07 |
FROM | Ruben I Safir
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SUBJECT | Re: [hangout] php license
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Either is good if I can get GNU on it.
I need to send one to my daughter in Milwaukee
On 2002.05.07 17:42 David Sugar wrote: > I have a working Toshiba CD 610. It has 16 megs of ram and I think a 1.2g hd at the > moment. I also have one I could possibly loan out that is more useful, with a 4g hd > and 80 megs of ram, and a 800x600 display that is very nice (Toshiba 660 CDT). Why > do you ask and what do you need it for? > > > Ruben I Safir (ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com) wrote*: > > > > > >Do you have a spare laptop? > > > >> If I remember correctly, the FSF considered the php2 license to be a free software > >> license of sorts, and php3 was under the gpl. This particular item was in relation > >> to the license that php2 had. I am not sure what the FSF opinion is on the > >> php4/zend licensing other than they do not consider it free software and do not use > >> it or support it's use in GNU projects. > >> > >> > >> Ruben I Safir (ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com) wrote*: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >On 2002.05.07 15:19 Jonathan Bober wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Ok, there are so many posts on this thread that I am just replying to my > >> >> own... > >> >> > >> >> First, let me quote again from the FSF website, more briefly, and with > >> >> some added emphasis of my own. > >> >> > >> >> --- > >> >> The Q Public License (QPL), Version 1.0. > >> >> This is a non-copyleft FREE SOFTWARE license. > >> >> [...] > >> >> The PHP License, Version 2.02 > >> >> [...] > >> >> This is a non-copyleft FREE SOFTWARE license. > >> >> [...] > >> >> --- > >> >> > >> > > >> >OK - I would disagree the FSF unless the terms of the license are not what they > >> >are. The PHP license prevents the alteration of core ZEND and redistribution of > >> >a New Zend. And that is the key. BSD and GPL do this. > >> > > >> > > >> >> I am not too familiar with these licenses. However, the Free Software > >> >> Foundation is arguably the definitive organization for defining exactly > >> >> what is and what is not a Free Software license. If either license is > >> >> not a Free Software license as the FSF defines a Free Software license > >> >> to be, then someone should correct their mistake. > >> > > >> >Agreed > >> > > >> >> > >> >> Now, this does not address the practical issues involved in the PHP > >> >> license and the QPL. In practice, it may be that these licenses are not > >> >> as friendly as the GPL or the BSD license, but that does not make them > >> >> non-free. Let me quote again - "This is a non-copyleft FREE SOFTWARE > >> >> license." > >> >> > >> > > >> >See above... > >> > > >> >> As far as GPL compatible vs. incompatible goes, incompatibility in > >> >> itself is not a problem with a Free Software license, except to enforce > >> >> uniform Free Software standards. Other GPL-incompatible licenses > >> >> include the Apache license, the Mozilla Public License, and the Python > >> >> License. This does not make these progrmas non-free software. > >> >> Incompatibility basically means that one cannot take GPL covered code > >> >> and combine it with code covered under GPL-incompatible license X. A > >> >> license is not merely incompatible because of its own restrictions - it > >> >> is also incompatible because of GPL restrictions. > >> >> > >> >> We might say that the current BSD license is GPL compatible, because we > >> >> can take code under said license and repackage it under a GPL-covered > >> >> product. On the other hand, BSD-supporting people might say that the > >> >> GPL is a viral license, > >> > > >> > > >> >And in this they are just wrong. It's FUD and fustration. I don't even know > >> >what this means. It's not even english. The GPL affects nothing other than > >> >GPL'ed software. This is a fact, not fiction. > >> > > >> > > >> >> incompatible with the BSD license, because one > >> >> cannot take GPL'd code, package it with BSD-covered code, and release a > >> >> program under the BSD license. In this sense, the BSD license is "more > >> >> free" > >> > > >> >That is also not right accept for the simplist (and unacceptable) definition > >> >that freedom eq choice. > >> > > >> >Freedom is a societal issue and freedom ne choice. > >> > > >> >Any thinking person knows this. There are degrees of freedom the BSD > >> >license guarantees and degrees of freedom that the GPL guarantees. Form > >> >the POV of freedom, the GPL does more because it restricts Paul from shooting > >> >Mary giving Paul and Mary freedom. > >> > > >> > > >> >> Freedom is about allowing the original developer choose how he wants his > >> >> code to be used, > >> > > >> >That is not correct. See above. One persons choice can abuse anothers freedom. > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> And as another note, this has nothing to do with whether or not PHP is a > >> >> good or bad language. Ruben does not like it, but many other people do, > >> >> and that is all I really know about PHP. The Free Software Foundation > >> >> certainly has no problems with Free PHP code, just as they have no > >> >> problem with Free Java code. My first post just stemmed from the fact > >> >> that at last night's meeting, Ruben said something about PHP being > >> >> non-free, and that didn't seem right to me, so I decided to check it > >> >> out. > >> > > >> >If Zend is closed, like Brendan described, then FSF be damned, it's not Free > Software > >> >according the the FSF's own standards. > >> > > >> >Which just goes to I'm not the Stallman minion Brendan accused me of. Nor am I not > >> >hios minion. > >> > > >> >Why not you do the research on the PHP license and structure and ask Richard why > >> >the site says what it does. > >> > > >> >Either I misunderstand the licensing, Richard misunderstands, or we both do. > >> > > >> >rms-at-gnu.org > >> > > >> >May 2002 23:09:50 -0500 > >> >> Jonathan Bober wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > I thought that there was something wrong about the statement that PHP > >> >> > is not Free Software. PHP is Free Software, just under a "bad" Free > >> >> > Software License. > >> >> > > >> >> > ------------- > >> >> > > >> >> > The PHP License, Version 2.02. > >> >> > This license is used by most of PHP4, but one important part of > >> >> > PHP4, the Zend optimizer, uses a different and worse license: the QPL. > >> >> > > >> >> > This is a non-copyleft free software license with practical > >> >> > problems like those of the original BSD license, including > >> >> > incompatibility with the GNU GPL. > >> >> > > >> >> > PHP3 is not under this license. PHP3 is disjunctively dual-licensed > >> >> > with the GNU GPL. Thus, while PHP4 (which is covered only by the PHP > >> >> > 2.02 License) is still free software, we encourage you to use and make > >> >> > improvements to only PHP3. That way, we can have an active version of > >> >> > PHP whose license is compatible with the GPL. If you are interested in > >> >> > helping maintain an active version of PHP3, please contact the GNU > >> >> > Volunteer Coordinators . > >> >> > > >> >> > and then the QPL > >> >> > > >> >> > The Q Public License (QPL), Version 1.0. > >> >> > This is a non-copyleft free software license which is incompatible > >> >> > with the GNU GPL. It also causes major practical inconvenience, > >> >> > because modified sources can only be distributed as patches. > >> >> > > >> >> > We recommend that you avoid using the QPL for anything that you > >> >> > write, and use QPL-covered software packages only when absolutely > >> >> > necessary. However, this avoidance no longer applies to Qt itself, > >> >> > since Qt is now also released under the GNU GPL. > >> >> > > >> >> > Since the QPL is incompatible with the GNU GPL, you cannot take a > >> >> > GPL-covered program and QPL-covered program and link them together, no > >> >> > matter how. > >> >> > > >> >> > However, if you have written a program that uses QPL-covered > >> >> > library(called FOO), and you want to release your program under > >> >> > the GNU GPL, you can easily do that. You can resolve the conflict > >> >> > for your program by adding a notice like this to it: > >> >> > > >> >> > As a special exception, you have permission to link this program > >> >> > with the FOO library and distribute executables, as long as you > >> >> > follow the requirements of the GNU GPL in regard to all of the > >> >> > software in the executable aside from FOO. > >> >> > > >> >> > You can do this, legally, if you are the copyright holder for the > >> >> > program. Add it in the source files, after the notice that says the > >> >> > program is covered by the GNU GPL. > >> >> > ____________________________ > >> >> > New Yorker Linux Users Scene > >> >> > Fair Use - > >> >> > because it's either fair use or useless.... > >> >> ____________________________ > >> >> New Yorker Linux Users Scene > >> >> Fair Use - > >> >> because it's either fair use or useless.... > >> >> > >> > > >> >Brooklyn Linux Solutions > >> >__________________________ > >> >http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting > >> >http://www.brooklynonline.com - For the love of Brooklyn > >> >http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software > >> >http://www.nyfairuse.org - The foundation of Democracy > >> >http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles > >> from around the net > >> >http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/mp3/dr.mp3 - Imagine my surprise when I saw you... > >> >http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... > >> > > >> >1-718-382-5752 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >____________________________ > >> >New Yorker Linux Users Scene > >> >Fair Use - > >> >because it's either fair use or useless.... > >> > > >> > > > >____________________________ > >New Yorker Linux Users Scene > >Fair Use - > >because it's either fair use or useless.... > > > -- __________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.brooklynonline.com - For the love of Brooklyn http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www.nyfairuse.org - The foundation of Democracy http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/mp3/dr.mp3 - Imagine my surprise when I saw you... http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....
1-718-382-5752
____________________________ New Yorker Linux Users Scene Fair Use - because it's either fair use or useless....
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